Discussion:
Just installed evc4 and do not know where to go now ...
(too old to reply)
R.Wieser
2010-03-01 18:59:25 UTC
Permalink
Hello all,

I've got a phone using WM6 and would like to write an app for it. I've
downloaded and installed EVC4 downloaded from MS-es own website, and am now
stuck.

I've tried to build the default "hello world" app (F7), but got some message
about "the Standard SDK for Windows CE .NET" and the choosen (not by me!)
processor being incompatible and "cannot be run on the emulator device".

When I than try to run the app (F5) I get the same error-message but
nonetheless the "standard SDK" emulator starts. Alas, only to show an
(pretty-much) empty screen.

I did try to find some info using Google, but in vain.

In short, I'm at a loss to what to do or where to look for any advice. I
surely could use some help/directions.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser
r***@pen_fact.com
2010-03-01 23:12:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.Wieser
Hello all,
I've got a phone using WM6 and would like to write an app for it. I've
downloaded and installed EVC4 downloaded from MS-es own website, and am now
stuck.
I've tried to build the default "hello world" app (F7), but got some message
about "the Standard SDK for Windows CE .NET" and the choosen (not by me!)
processor being incompatible and "cannot be run on the emulator device".
You need to download the SDK (Software Development Kit) appropriate
for your device. For that you need more specific information about
your device. If you look around the MS web site where you got eVC, you
should see related links. If your device is a Smartphone, you can get
more info at microsoft.public.smartphone.developer. If your device is
a Pocket PC, you can get more help at
microsoft.public.pocketpc.developer.
Post by R.Wieser
When I than try to run the app (F5) I get the same error-message but
nonetheless the "standard SDK" emulator starts. Alas, only to show an
(pretty-much) empty screen.
The "Standard SDK" is rarely helpful, and usually a waste of time and
effort.
Post by R.Wieser
I did try to find some info using Google, but in vain.
In short, I'm at a loss to what to do or where to look for any advice. I
surely could use some help/directions.
I haven't check these, except to make sure the links are still valid.
But at least some should help:
http://www.pocketpcfaq.com/developer/dev.htm
http://www.codeproject.com/KB/mobile/Pocket_PC_Development.aspx
Post by R.Wieser
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
R.Wieser
2010-03-02 20:12:11 UTC
Permalink
Hello Robert.

First of all, thank you for your reply.

My phone is an "mda vario ii". I've just spend about an hour and a half
googleing for those words in conjunction with "evc4", "emulator images" and
a few other but did not find anything worth to mention. Checking most all
links in the body of the page I downloaded evc4 from did not reveal any
"emulator image" downloads either.

In other words, I could use a pointer/link or two.

By the way, do you have any idea to why that "Windows Mobile 5.0 Pocket PC
SDK" refuses to install (its stated reason does not match the info on the
download-page) ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser



-- Origional message
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
Hello all,
I've got a phone using WM6 and would like to write an app for it. I've
downloaded and installed EVC4 downloaded from MS-es own website, and am now
stuck.
I've tried to build the default "hello world" app (F7), but got some message
about "the Standard SDK for Windows CE .NET" and the choosen (not by me!)
processor being incompatible and "cannot be run on the emulator device".
You need to download the SDK (Software Development Kit) appropriate
for your device. For that you need more specific information about
your device. If you look around the MS web site where you got eVC, you
should see related links. If your device is a Smartphone, you can get
more info at microsoft.public.smartphone.developer. If your device is
a Pocket PC, you can get more help at
microsoft.public.pocketpc.developer.
Post by R.Wieser
When I than try to run the app (F5) I get the same error-message but
nonetheless the "standard SDK" emulator starts. Alas, only to show an
(pretty-much) empty screen.
The "Standard SDK" is rarely helpful, and usually a waste of time and
effort.
Post by R.Wieser
I did try to find some info using Google, but in vain.
In short, I'm at a loss to what to do or where to look for any advice. I
surely could use some help/directions.
I haven't check these, except to make sure the links are still valid.
http://www.pocketpcfaq.com/developer/dev.htm
http://www.codeproject.com/KB/mobile/Pocket_PC_Development.aspx
Post by R.Wieser
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and
please indicate which newsgroup and message).
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
r***@pen_fact.com
2010-03-02 20:49:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Robert.
First of all, thank you for your reply.
My phone is an "mda vario ii".
Here's more info on your device:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=254
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Wizard
http://www.pocketpcfaq.com/faqs/comparison/wm50ppcphone.php

So now I know you have a Windows Mobile 5 Pocket PC Phone Edition, and
so you should use the SDK for that. However, that SDK won't work with
eVC. So you can use the newest Pocket PC SDK that works with eVC, and
that is the one for Pocket PC 2003.

The good news is that you _can_ create executables that will run on
your device (I do something similar all the time). The (probably
minor) bad news is that you won't be able to use new features. The
more bothersome bad news is that you won't be able to debug directly
on the device, because eVC is very fussy about differences between the
target platform (Pocket PC 2003) and actual platform (Windows Mobile 5
Pocket PC Phone Edition).
Post by R.Wieser
I've just spend about an hour and a half
googleing for those words in conjunction with "evc4", "emulator images" and
a few other but did not find anything worth to mention. Checking most all
links in the body of the page I downloaded evc4 from did not reveal any
"emulator image" downloads either.
Each SDK targets a specific "platform". A "platform" is a combination
of hardware, the underlying operating system (Windows CE), tweaks to
that operating system (additions and subtractions), and applications.
Examples are Pocket PC 2003, Smartphone 2003, Windows Mobile 5 Pocket
PC Phone Edition, etc.
Post by R.Wieser
In other words, I could use a pointer/link or two.
By the way, do you have any idea to why that "Windows Mobile 5.0 Pocket PC
SDK" refuses to install (its stated reason does not match the info on the
download-page) ?
The requirements on the download page say it requires Visual Studio
2005. That means it won't work with eVC.
Post by R.Wieser
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
-- Origional message
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
Hello all,
I've got a phone using WM6 and would like to write an app for it. I've
downloaded and installed EVC4 downloaded from MS-es own website, and am
now
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
stuck.
I've tried to build the default "hello world" app (F7), but got some
message
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
about "the Standard SDK for Windows CE .NET" and the choosen (not by me!)
processor being incompatible and "cannot be run on the emulator device".
You need to download the SDK (Software Development Kit) appropriate
for your device. For that you need more specific information about
your device. If you look around the MS web site where you got eVC, you
should see related links. If your device is a Smartphone, you can get
more info at microsoft.public.smartphone.developer. If your device is
a Pocket PC, you can get more help at
microsoft.public.pocketpc.developer.
Post by R.Wieser
When I than try to run the app (F5) I get the same error-message but
nonetheless the "standard SDK" emulator starts. Alas, only to show an
(pretty-much) empty screen.
The "Standard SDK" is rarely helpful, and usually a waste of time and
effort.
Post by R.Wieser
I did try to find some info using Google, but in vain.
In short, I'm at a loss to what to do or where to look for any advice. I
surely could use some help/directions.
I haven't check these, except to make sure the links are still valid.
http://www.pocketpcfaq.com/developer/dev.htm
http://www.codeproject.com/KB/mobile/Pocket_PC_Development.aspx
Post by R.Wieser
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and
please indicate which newsgroup and message).
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
Chris Tacke, MVP
2010-03-03 20:51:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
The (probably
minor) bad news is that you won't be able to use new features.
He can always dynamically load new features with LoadLibrary/GetProcAddress.
Ugly, but it would work if he needs them.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
The
more bothersome bad news is that you won't be able to debug directly
on the device, because eVC is very fussy about differences between the
target platform (Pocket PC 2003) and actual platform (Windows Mobile 5
Pocket PC Phone Edition).
I've never tried, but you *might* be able to just change the platform ID in
the device registry to fool Platman into thinking you actually have a PPC
2003 device. The debugger would then work (in theory). Worht a try anyway.

-Chris
R.Wieser
2010-03-04 10:26:24 UTC
Permalink
Hello Chris,
Post by Chris Tacke, MVP
He can always dynamically load new features with
LoadLibrary/GetProcAddress.
Ugly, but it would work if he needs them.
As I often program in a non-standard language (Assembly, using Borlands
Tasm) I'm quite accustomed to stuff like that. I might even be tempted to
try to edit/rework the existing libraries to include the new functions.
Post by Chris Tacke, MVP
I've never tried, but you *might* be able to just change the platform
ID in the device registry to fool Platman into thinking you actually
have a PPC 2003 device. The debugger would then work (in theory).
Worht a try anyway.
Its something to remember (for when I have development-envoronment running)
and try.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


-- Origional message:
Chris Tacke, MVP <ctacke.at.opennetcf.dot.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
Post by Chris Tacke, MVP
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
The (probably
minor) bad news is that you won't be able to use new features.
He can always dynamically load new features with
LoadLibrary/GetProcAddress.
Post by Chris Tacke, MVP
Ugly, but it would work if he needs them.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
The
more bothersome bad news is that you won't be able to debug directly
on the device, because eVC is very fussy about differences between the
target platform (Pocket PC 2003) and actual platform (Windows Mobile 5
Pocket PC Phone Edition).
I've never tried, but you *might* be able to just change the platform ID in
the device registry to fool Platman into thinking you actually have a PPC
2003 device. The debugger would then work (in theory). Worht a try anyway.
-Chris
R.Wieser
2010-03-04 10:01:26 UTC
Permalink
Hello Robert,
Here's more info on your device: <snip links>
Thanks for the links. The forum looks especially interresting.
So you can use the newest Pocket PC SDK that works with
eVC, and that is the one for Pocket PC 2003.
.. and that will be the next thing I'm gong to download, directly after I
finish this message, thanks. I did see that package, but saw no
indication it could be applicable my phone.
The good news is that you _can_ create executables that will run
on your device (I do something similar all the time). The (probably
minor) bad news is that you won't be able to use new features.
Do you know of any sheet which, for programming purposes, lays out the "old"
against the "new" features ?
The more bothersome bad news is that you won't be able to debug
directly on the device, because eVC is very fussy about differences
between the target platform (Pocket PC 2003) and actual platform
(Windows Mobile 5 Pocket PC Phone Edition).
Well, at least than I will have something I can experiment with, which is a
*lot* more than I have now (which is nothing at all).
Each SDK targets a specific "platform". A "platform" is a
combination of hardware, the underlying operating system
(Windows CE), tweaks to that operating system (additions
and subtractions), and applications.
I allready assumed something like it. Alas, I could not find anything
linking my 'mda vario II' WM6 phone to any of the SDKs I found (not when
searching for the SDKs, nor when searching for my type of phone). It made
it impossible for me to choose one of them (too little info).

Maybe my own fault for my "try myself first first, ask help only if it does
not work" approach to it I suppose. :-)
The requirements on the download page say it requires
Visual Studio 2005. That means it won't work with eVC.
Ehrm ... I made a mistake there : I ment to download the Smartphone SDK,
but somehow managed to download the Pocket-PC SDK instead. The first should
work with evc4, the latter doesn't. my apologies.

Thanks for the response & links

Regards
Rudy Wieser
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Robert.
First of all, thank you for your reply.
My phone is an "mda vario ii".
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=254
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Wizard
http://www.pocketpcfaq.com/faqs/comparison/wm50ppcphone.php
So now I know you have a Windows Mobile 5 Pocket PC Phone Edition, and
so you should use the SDK for that. However, that SDK won't work with
eVC. So you can use the newest Pocket PC SDK that works with eVC, and
that is the one for Pocket PC 2003.
The good news is that you _can_ create executables that will run on
your device (I do something similar all the time). The (probably
minor) bad news is that you won't be able to use new features. The
more bothersome bad news is that you won't be able to debug directly
on the device, because eVC is very fussy about differences between the
target platform (Pocket PC 2003) and actual platform (Windows Mobile 5
Pocket PC Phone Edition).
Post by R.Wieser
I've just spend about an hour and a half
googleing for those words in conjunction with "evc4", "emulator images" and
a few other but did not find anything worth to mention. Checking most all
links in the body of the page I downloaded evc4 from did not reveal any
"emulator image" downloads either.
Each SDK targets a specific "platform". A "platform" is a combination
of hardware, the underlying operating system (Windows CE), tweaks to
that operating system (additions and subtractions), and applications.
Examples are Pocket PC 2003, Smartphone 2003, Windows Mobile 5 Pocket
PC Phone Edition, etc.
Post by R.Wieser
In other words, I could use a pointer/link or two.
By the way, do you have any idea to why that "Windows Mobile 5.0 Pocket PC
SDK" refuses to install (its stated reason does not match the info on the
download-page) ?
The requirements on the download page say it requires Visual Studio
2005. That means it won't work with eVC.
Post by R.Wieser
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
R.Wieser
2010-03-04 12:05:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
So you can use the newest Pocket PC SDK that works with
eVC, and that is the one for Pocket PC 2003.
.. and that will be the next thing I'm gong to download, directly after I
finish this message, thanks. I did see that package, but saw no
indication it could be applicable my phone.
Alas, although two new support-programs where pushed to my phone the
executable itself was deemed incompatible with my phone (a bit expected, but
I had to try nonetheless).

Strange though : the two new support-programs arrived on my phone without
the XP firewall blocking them (got a "unsigned executable" warning for all
three of the above programs), the actual executable was blocked by it.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Robert,
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Here's more info on your device: <snip links>
Thanks for the links. The forum looks especially interresting.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
So you can use the newest Pocket PC SDK that works with
eVC, and that is the one for Pocket PC 2003.
.. and that will be the next thing I'm gong to download, directly after I
finish this message, thanks. I did see that package, but saw no
indication it could be applicable my phone.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
The good news is that you _can_ create executables that will run
on your device (I do something similar all the time). The (probably
minor) bad news is that you won't be able to use new features.
Do you know of any sheet which, for programming purposes, lays out the "old"
against the "new" features ?
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
The more bothersome bad news is that you won't be able to debug
directly on the device, because eVC is very fussy about differences
between the target platform (Pocket PC 2003) and actual platform
(Windows Mobile 5 Pocket PC Phone Edition).
Well, at least than I will have something I can experiment with, which is a
*lot* more than I have now (which is nothing at all).
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Each SDK targets a specific "platform". A "platform" is a
combination of hardware, the underlying operating system
(Windows CE), tweaks to that operating system (additions
and subtractions), and applications.
I allready assumed something like it. Alas, I could not find anything
linking my 'mda vario II' WM6 phone to any of the SDKs I found (not when
searching for the SDKs, nor when searching for my type of phone). It made
it impossible for me to choose one of them (too little info).
Maybe my own fault for my "try myself first first, ask help only if it does
not work" approach to it I suppose. :-)
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
The requirements on the download page say it requires
Visual Studio 2005. That means it won't work with eVC.
Ehrm ... I made a mistake there : I ment to download the Smartphone SDK,
but somehow managed to download the Pocket-PC SDK instead. The first should
work with evc4, the latter doesn't. my apologies.
Thanks for the response & links
Regards
Rudy Wieser
r***@pen_fact.com
2010-03-04 22:57:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.Wieser
Post by R.Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
So you can use the newest Pocket PC SDK that works with
eVC, and that is the one for Pocket PC 2003.
.. and that will be the next thing I'm gong to download, directly after I
finish this message, thanks. I did see that package, but saw no
indication it could be applicable my phone.
Alas, although two new support-programs where pushed to my phone the
executable itself was deemed incompatible with my phone (a bit expected, but
I had to try nonetheless).
Let me emphasize that my normal procedure is to build for the original
Pocket PC (older than Pocket PC 2003 _and_ Pocket PC 2002) and run on
everything newer, including WM 6. I see warnings about lack of
certification, but nothing about actual incompatibility. So _I_ am
surprised your app was "deemed incompatible". Are you sure you built
for the actual device, rather than the emulator? Are you sure the
message said incompatible, rather than not certified? (Hmm, my tone
seems argumentative; not my intent, but I really think we can solve
_this_ compatibility issue.)

If you're willing to trust me, I can send an executable built for
Pocket PC that should work on your device. I just confirmed that it
works on my JasJar that was originally WM 5 Pocket PC Phone Edition
but has been updated to WM 6. So it will be a good test of my notion.
See my signature to send me email directly.
Post by R.Wieser
Strange though : the two new support-programs arrived on my phone without
the XP firewall blocking them (got a "unsigned executable" warning for all
three of the above programs), the actual executable was blocked by it.
Who "pushed" the support programs? And how? Not something I
experience.
Post by R.Wieser
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Robert,
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Here's more info on your device: <snip links>
Thanks for the links. The forum looks especially interresting.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
So you can use the newest Pocket PC SDK that works with
eVC, and that is the one for Pocket PC 2003.
.. and that will be the next thing I'm gong to download, directly after I
finish this message, thanks. I did see that package, but saw no
indication it could be applicable my phone.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
The good news is that you _can_ create executables that will run
on your device (I do something similar all the time). The (probably
minor) bad news is that you won't be able to use new features.
Do you know of any sheet which, for programming purposes, lays out the
"old"
Post by R.Wieser
against the "new" features ?
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
The more bothersome bad news is that you won't be able to debug
directly on the device, because eVC is very fussy about differences
between the target platform (Pocket PC 2003) and actual platform
(Windows Mobile 5 Pocket PC Phone Edition).
Well, at least than I will have something I can experiment with, which is
a
Post by R.Wieser
*lot* more than I have now (which is nothing at all).
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Each SDK targets a specific "platform". A "platform" is a
combination of hardware, the underlying operating system
(Windows CE), tweaks to that operating system (additions
and subtractions), and applications.
I allready assumed something like it. Alas, I could not find anything
linking my 'mda vario II' WM6 phone to any of the SDKs I found (not when
searching for the SDKs, nor when searching for my type of phone). It
made
Post by R.Wieser
it impossible for me to choose one of them (too little info).
Maybe my own fault for my "try myself first first, ask help only if it
does
Post by R.Wieser
not work" approach to it I suppose. :-)
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
The requirements on the download page say it requires
Visual Studio 2005. That means it won't work with eVC.
Ehrm ... I made a mistake there : I ment to download the Smartphone SDK,
but somehow managed to download the Pocket-PC SDK instead. The first
should
Post by R.Wieser
work with evc4, the latter doesn't. my apologies.
Thanks for the response & links
Regards
Rudy Wieser
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
R.Wieser
2010-03-09 22:15:55 UTC
Permalink
Hello Robert,
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Who "pushed" the support programs? And how? Not something
I experience.
The programming-environment send them to the phone. I have no idea what
their names where, and could not find them back on the phone.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
So _I_ am surprised your app was "deemed
incompatible". Are you sure you built for the actual device,
rather than the emulator? Are you sure the message said
incompatible, rather than not certified?
Last week I tried to build the app in all four modi : emulator/ARMV4 and
debug/release, and none worked.

After presing F7 and getting a compiler-warining about a missing "vibrate.h"
file and an ActiveSync box appeared (uploading the app) a message-box popped
up saying :

"The ARM SA1100 CPU does not support configuration Test2 - Win32 (WCE ARMV4)
Release!
The executable will not run on device."

I ignored that (assuming that one of the above-mentioned four modi should
work), but got, after the "unsigned" messages, the "incompatible" message on
the phone all four times.

-- Fast-forward to today.

I just retried the whole thing so I could write down the exact
error-messages. I did choose the "ARMV4 - release" option and pressed F7.
The missing file warning as well as the ActiveSync box where still there,
The "The executable will not run on device" message appeared too.

The only thing different ? Nonwithstanding the above message the app on the
phone ran. I have no idea why (twice : why not last week, and why
nonwithstanding that above message), and that bothers me. :-/

Any idea what that "The executable will not run on device." message means
and/or what I have to do to "fix" it ?

One other thing : Deleting the executable posed a problem. The phone
complained that the app was stil in use. Only after some time grumbling I
had a brain-fart and decided to take a look under configuration -> system ->
memory I noticed the program was still running. Stopping it there enabled me
to delete the app.

1) Any idea why ?
2) Can I disable the "stay running" in my test-programs (any setting I can
change) ?
3) Is there a short-cut to stop running programs fast ?

As a last (for this time) question : what are the "wce emulator"
debug/release options supposed to do ? Currently they are not really
usefull. Could I un-install the "Standard SDK for Windows CE .NET" SDK and
be rid of them (am asking so I do not have to risk de- and re-install the
whole thing just to test it) ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
Post by R.Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
So you can use the newest Pocket PC SDK that works with
eVC, and that is the one for Pocket PC 2003.
.. and that will be the next thing I'm gong to download, directly
after I finish this message, thanks. I did see that package, but
saw no indication it could be applicable my phone.
Alas, although two new support-programs where pushed to my
phone the executable itself was deemed incompatible with my
phone (a bit expected, but I had to try nonetheless).
Let me emphasize that my normal procedure is to build for the
original Pocket PC (older than Pocket PC 2003 _and_ Pocket
PC 2002) and run on everything newer, including WM 6. I see
warnings about lack of certification, but nothing about actual
incompatibility. So _I_ am surprised your app was "deemed
incompatible". Are you sure you built for the actual device,
rather than the emulator? Are you sure the message said
incompatible, rather than not certified? (Hmm, my tone
seems argumentative; not my intent, but I really think we can
solve _this_ compatibility issue.)
If you're willing to trust me, I can send an executable built for
Pocket PC that should work on your device. I just confirmed
that it works on my JasJar that was originally WM 5 Pocket
PC Phone Edition but has been updated to WM 6. So it will
be a good test of my notion.
See my signature to send me email directly.
Post by R.Wieser
Strange though : the two new support-programs arrived on my
phone without the XP firewall blocking them (got a "unsigned
executable" warning for all three of the above programs), the
actual executable was blocked by it.
Who "pushed" the support programs? And how? Not something
I experience.
Post by R.Wieser
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
r***@pen_fact.com
2010-03-10 18:23:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Robert,
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Who "pushed" the support programs? And how? Not something
I experience.
The programming-environment send them to the phone. I have no idea what
their names where, and could not find them back on the phone.
What is "the programming-environment"?
Post by R.Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
So _I_ am surprised your app was "deemed
incompatible". Are you sure you built for the actual device,
rather than the emulator? Are you sure the message said
incompatible, rather than not certified?
clip
Post by R.Wieser
-- Fast-forward to today.
I just retried the whole thing so I could write down the exact
error-messages. I did choose the "ARMV4 - release" option and pressed F7.
The missing file warning as well as the ActiveSync box where still there,
The "The executable will not run on device" message appeared too.
That is probably your compiler IDE complaining because the target and
actual platforms are not the same.
Post by R.Wieser
The only thing different ? Nonwithstanding the above message the app on the
phone ran. I have no idea why (twice : why not last week, and why
nonwithstanding that above message), and that bothers me. :-/
I don't know why the IDE let the app install this time and not last
time. I suggest copying (probably using ActiveSync) and running the
app yourself, without any "help" from the IDE.
Post by R.Wieser
Any idea what that "The executable will not run on device." message means
and/or what I have to do to "fix" it ?
See above.
Post by R.Wieser
One other thing : Deleting the executable posed a problem. The phone
complained that the app was stil in use. Only after some time grumbling I
had a brain-fart and decided to take a look under configuration -> system ->
memory I noticed the program was still running. Stopping it there enabled me
to delete the app.
By default, the "close" button on Windows Mobile only hides a program;
it does not close it. This is a Microsoft decision that has been much
discussed. I just used Google
(http://groups.google.com/advanced_search?q=&) to look up
close button
in microsoft.public.pocketpc.developer (the more appropriate group for
this discussion) and got 165 hits. I'm in a rush right now, so I
didn't look further.
Post by R.Wieser
1) Any idea why ?
2) Can I disable the "stay running" in my test-programs (any setting I can
change) ?
3) Is there a short-cut to stop running programs fast ?
As a last (for this time) question : what are the "wce emulator"
debug/release options supposed to do ? Currently they are not really
usefull. Could I un-install the "Standard SDK for Windows CE .NET" SDK and
be rid of them (am asking so I do not have to risk de- and re-install the
whole thing just to test it) ?
The SDK/IDE combination includes an emulator, so you can do some
testing without a real device. You need to compile separately for the
emulator and for a real device. Debug builds include more info, and
let you walk through your program one source line at a time. Release
builds are smaller and faster (thus appropriate for public release).
If you don't understand these terms, I strongly recommend taking some
time with basic tutorials or books. As a start, I suggest using google
(see above) to look up
newbie
in microsoft.public.pocketpc.developer (in this context, "newbie" is
useful, not an insult).
Post by R.Wieser
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
Post by R.Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
So you can use the newest Pocket PC SDK that works with
eVC, and that is the one for Pocket PC 2003.
.. and that will be the next thing I'm gong to download, directly
after I finish this message, thanks. I did see that package, but
saw no indication it could be applicable my phone.
Alas, although two new support-programs where pushed to my
phone the executable itself was deemed incompatible with my
phone (a bit expected, but I had to try nonetheless).
Let me emphasize that my normal procedure is to build for the
original Pocket PC (older than Pocket PC 2003 _and_ Pocket
PC 2002) and run on everything newer, including WM 6. I see
warnings about lack of certification, but nothing about actual
incompatibility. So _I_ am surprised your app was "deemed
incompatible". Are you sure you built for the actual device,
rather than the emulator? Are you sure the message said
incompatible, rather than not certified? (Hmm, my tone
seems argumentative; not my intent, but I really think we can
solve _this_ compatibility issue.)
If you're willing to trust me, I can send an executable built for
Pocket PC that should work on your device. I just confirmed
that it works on my JasJar that was originally WM 5 Pocket
PC Phone Edition but has been updated to WM 6. So it will
be a good test of my notion.
See my signature to send me email directly.
Post by R.Wieser
Strange though : the two new support-programs arrived on my
phone without the XP firewall blocking them (got a "unsigned
executable" warning for all three of the above programs), the
actual executable was blocked by it.
Who "pushed" the support programs? And how? Not something
I experience.
Post by R.Wieser
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
R.Wieser
2010-03-22 12:01:40 UTC
Permalink
Hello Robert,

Sorry for the late reply, I became occupied with something else.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
What is "the programming-environment"?
EVC4 and the SDK. No idea which part/program actually did initiate the
upload of those support(?) programs though.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
I don't know why the IDE let the app install this time and
not last time. I suggest copying (probably using ActiveSync)
and running the app yourself, without any "help" from the IDE.
Currently the uploading seems to go O.K. , though I am a bit taken aback
that the uploading of the executable does not give any kind of warning/error
when it fails to replace the executable on the phone (due to it not having
been closed, but only hidden and still present in memory).
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
One other thing : Deleting the executable posed a problem.
...
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
By default, the "close" button on Windows Mobile only
hides a program; it does not close it.
Yes, that explains it.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
I just used Google <snip>
I've followed most of those links, and found that most where about
*disabeling* the close-button, quite the opposite of what I want to do. :-)

I even found a command named "CommandBar_AddAdornments" (which did not work
for me) to which google showed just *2* hits. Truly amazing.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
If you don't understand these terms, I strongly recommend
taking some time with basic tutorials or books.
Even though I do, I would like to see/check-out those tutorials pertaining
to programming EVC4 for POCKET PC2003 (which is what I have installed). Is
quite likely they contain information I'm not yet/really aware of and could
therefore be helpfull. I can't say I found, during my search for what to
do to get EVC4 running in conjunction with my phone, any of them myself ...
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
As a start, I suggest using google (see above) to look up
newbie
in microsoft.public.pocketpc.developer (in this context,
"newbie" is useful, not an insult).
:-) I *am* a 'newbie' in regard to EVC4, Smartphone SDKs and smartphone
programming in general, so its in no way an insult. Thanks for the
suggestion, I'll check it out.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Robert,
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Who "pushed" the support programs? And how? Not something
I experience.
The programming-environment send them to the phone. I have no idea what
their names where, and could not find them back on the phone.
What is "the programming-environment"?
Post by R.Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
So _I_ am surprised your app was "deemed
incompatible". Are you sure you built for the actual device,
rather than the emulator? Are you sure the message said
incompatible, rather than not certified?
clip
Post by R.Wieser
-- Fast-forward to today.
I just retried the whole thing so I could write down the exact
error-messages. I did choose the "ARMV4 - release" option and pressed F7.
The missing file warning as well as the ActiveSync box where still there,
The "The executable will not run on device" message appeared too.
That is probably your compiler IDE complaining because the target and
actual platforms are not the same.
Post by R.Wieser
The only thing different ? Nonwithstanding the above message the app on the
phone ran. I have no idea why (twice : why not last week, and why
nonwithstanding that above message), and that bothers me. :-/
I don't know why the IDE let the app install this time and not last
time. I suggest copying (probably using ActiveSync) and running the
app yourself, without any "help" from the IDE.
Post by R.Wieser
Any idea what that "The executable will not run on device." message means
and/or what I have to do to "fix" it ?
See above.
Post by R.Wieser
One other thing : Deleting the executable posed a problem. The phone
complained that the app was stil in use. Only after some time grumbling I
had a brain-fart and decided to take a look under configuration -> system ->
memory I noticed the program was still running. Stopping it there enabled me
to delete the app.
By default, the "close" button on Windows Mobile only hides a program;
it does not close it. This is a Microsoft decision that has been much
discussed. I just used Google
(http://groups.google.com/advanced_search?q=&) to look up
close button
in microsoft.public.pocketpc.developer (the more appropriate group for
this discussion) and got 165 hits. I'm in a rush right now, so I
didn't look further.
Post by R.Wieser
1) Any idea why ?
2) Can I disable the "stay running" in my test-programs (any setting I can
change) ?
3) Is there a short-cut to stop running programs fast ?
As a last (for this time) question : what are the "wce emulator"
debug/release options supposed to do ? Currently they are not really
usefull. Could I un-install the "Standard SDK for Windows CE .NET" SDK and
be rid of them (am asking so I do not have to risk de- and re-install the
whole thing just to test it) ?
The SDK/IDE combination includes an emulator, so you can do some
testing without a real device. You need to compile separately for the
emulator and for a real device. Debug builds include more info, and
let you walk through your program one source line at a time. Release
builds are smaller and faster (thus appropriate for public release).
If you don't understand these terms, I strongly recommend taking some
time with basic tutorials or books. As a start, I suggest using google
(see above) to look up
newbie
in microsoft.public.pocketpc.developer (in this context, "newbie" is
useful, not an insult).
Post by R.Wieser
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
r***@pen_fact.com
2010-03-04 22:57:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Robert,
Here's more info on your device: <snip links>
Thanks for the links. The forum looks especially interresting.
So you can use the newest Pocket PC SDK that works with
eVC, and that is the one for Pocket PC 2003.
.. and that will be the next thing I'm gong to download, directly after I
finish this message, thanks. I did see that package, but saw no
indication it could be applicable my phone.
The direct link between your device and an SDK is "Windows Mobile 5
Pocket PC Phone Edition". Microsoft has been very good about upward
compatibility, so executables built for older platforms (e.g. Pocket
PC 2003) usually work on newer platforms (e.g. WM 5 Pocket PC). .
Post by R.Wieser
The good news is that you _can_ create executables that will run
on your device (I do something similar all the time). The (probably
minor) bad news is that you won't be able to use new features.
Do you know of any sheet which, for programming purposes, lays out the "old"
against the "new" features ?
No. I don't know of any concise comparison of features for any two
versions of Windows ("big" or CE - the operating system inside Windows
Mobile).
Post by R.Wieser
The more bothersome bad news is that you won't be able to debug
directly on the device, because eVC is very fussy about differences
between the target platform (Pocket PC 2003) and actual platform
(Windows Mobile 5 Pocket PC Phone Edition).
Well, at least than I will have something I can experiment with, which is a
*lot* more than I have now (which is nothing at all).
Each SDK targets a specific "platform". A "platform" is a
combination of hardware, the underlying operating system
(Windows CE), tweaks to that operating system (additions
and subtractions), and applications.
I allready assumed something like it. Alas, I could not find anything
linking my 'mda vario II' WM6 phone to any of the SDKs I found (not when
searching for the SDKs, nor when searching for my type of phone). It made
it impossible for me to choose one of them (too little info).
Maybe my own fault for my "try myself first first, ask help only if it does
not work" approach to it I suppose. :-)
The requirements on the download page say it requires
Visual Studio 2005. That means it won't work with eVC.
Ehrm ... I made a mistake there : I ment to download the Smartphone SDK,
but somehow managed to download the Pocket-PC SDK instead. The first should
work with evc4, the latter doesn't. my apologies.
Your device was originally a Windows Mobile 5.0 Pocket PC Phone
Edition. You may have updated it to Windows Mobile 6, but it is still
a Pocket PC (well, see next paragraph). So you _do_ need a Pocket PC
SDK. You may be able to get something to work using a Smartphone SDK,
but you will almost certainly not have any touch support. The eVC
compatibility problem is not Smartphone vs Pocket PC, but Windows
Mobile 5 vs Windows Mobile 2003 (not really official name, but close
enough for this context).

Microsoft made a nomenclatural mess. What were called "Pocket PC",
"Pocket PC Phone Edition", and "Smartphone" for WM 5 were called
"Classic", "Professional", and "Standard" for WM6. So, I suppose your
device is now "Windows Mobile 6 Professional".
Post by R.Wieser
Thanks for the response & links
Regards
Rudy Wieser
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Robert.
First of all, thank you for your reply.
My phone is an "mda vario ii".
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=254
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Wizard
http://www.pocketpcfaq.com/faqs/comparison/wm50ppcphone.php
So now I know you have a Windows Mobile 5 Pocket PC Phone Edition, and
so you should use the SDK for that. However, that SDK won't work with
eVC. So you can use the newest Pocket PC SDK that works with eVC, and
that is the one for Pocket PC 2003.
The good news is that you _can_ create executables that will run on
your device (I do something similar all the time). The (probably
minor) bad news is that you won't be able to use new features. The
more bothersome bad news is that you won't be able to debug directly
on the device, because eVC is very fussy about differences between the
target platform (Pocket PC 2003) and actual platform (Windows Mobile 5
Pocket PC Phone Edition).
Post by R.Wieser
I've just spend about an hour and a half
googleing for those words in conjunction with "evc4", "emulator images"
and
Post by R.Wieser
a few other but did not find anything worth to mention. Checking most
all
Post by R.Wieser
links in the body of the page I downloaded evc4 from did not reveal any
"emulator image" downloads either.
Each SDK targets a specific "platform". A "platform" is a combination
of hardware, the underlying operating system (Windows CE), tweaks to
that operating system (additions and subtractions), and applications.
Examples are Pocket PC 2003, Smartphone 2003, Windows Mobile 5 Pocket
PC Phone Edition, etc.
Post by R.Wieser
In other words, I could use a pointer/link or two.
By the way, do you have any idea to why that "Windows Mobile 5.0 Pocket
PC
Post by R.Wieser
SDK" refuses to install (its stated reason does not match the info on the
download-page) ?
The requirements on the download page say it requires Visual Studio
2005. That means it won't work with eVC.
Post by R.Wieser
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
Eric Foot
2011-03-14 08:07:13 UTC
Permalink
I realise this topic is now a bit old. But for anyone still interested, here are my experiences.
I first wanted to re-program my CE-based GPS unit, using EVC4/SP4 and StandardSDK for CE 5. I failed to be able to debug until I found a copy of Platform Builder 5 on the net (Microsoft do an excellent job of hiding it). I didn't know much about my GPS unit, but gave it my best guesses and built an SDK. This gives warnings when I attempt to debug apps on my SatNav, but it works, with full source-level debugging.
I've just bought an HTC Diamond2 and wanted to port my application there. Hence I came to these pages to try to find out how to do it. After much frustration, I thought I would try the SDK I built for my GPS unit.
After even more grizzles, it works! It gives full source-level debugging using EVC4 on WM 6.1.
I'm not really sure why my SDK works and everyone else seems to say it's not possible. I'd be quite happy to put the generated SDK somewhere public if it's of any use to anyone.
Post by R.Wieser
Hello all,
I have got a phone using WM6 and would like to write an app for it. I have
downloaded and installed EVC4 downloaded from MS-es own website, and am now
stuck.
I have tried to build the default "hello world" app (F7), but got some message
about "the Standard SDK for Windows CE .NET" and the choosen (not by me!)
processor being incompatible and "cannot be run on the emulator device".
When I than try to run the app (F5) I get the same error-message but
nonetheless the "standard SDK" emulator starts. Alas, only to show an
(pretty-much) empty screen.
I did try to find some info using Google, but in vain.
In short, I am at a loss to what to do or where to look for any advice. I
surely could use some help/directions.
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
You need to download the SDK (Software Development Kit) appropriate
for your device. For that you need more specific information about
your device. If you look around the MS web site where you got eVC, you
should see related links. If your device is a Smartphone, you can get
more info at microsoft.public.smartphone.developer. If your device is
a Pocket PC, you can get more help at
microsoft.public.pocketpc.developer.
The "Standard SDK" is rarely helpful, and usually a waste of time and
effort.
I have not check these, except to make sure the links are still valid.
http://www.pocketpcfaq.com/developer/dev.htm
http://www.codeproject.com/KB/mobile/Pocket_PC_Development.aspx
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).
Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Robert.
First of all, thank you for your reply.
My phone is an "mda vario ii". I have just spend about an hour and a half
googleing for those words in conjunction with "evc4", "emulator images" and
a few other but did not find anything worth to mention. Checking most all
links in the body of the page I downloaded evc4 from did not reveal any
"emulator image" downloads either.
In other words, I could use a pointer/link or two.
By the way, do you have any idea to why that "Windows Mobile 5.0 Pocket PC
SDK" refuses to install (its stated reason does not match the info on the
download-page) ?
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
-- Origional message
now
message
please indicate which newsgroup and message).
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
If you have WM6, I think you want Visual Studio 2008 Pro and the WM6 SDK, not
eVC. Once you have the right tools installed, you have to take care to
select the target device you actually want. For example, there are perhaps
half a dozen different emulator configurations in the WM6 SDK, as well as the
target for an actual WM6 device.
Yes, you can use the WM5 SDK and assume that the code will work the same on
WM6, but you cannot debug, if I recall correctly, on a WM6 device while
targeting WM5 from eVC. We might be able to help install the WM5 SDK, if you
told us what the install failure does actually say.
Paul T.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=254
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Wizard
http://www.pocketpcfaq.com/faqs/comparison/wm50ppcphone.php
So now I know you have a Windows Mobile 5 Pocket PC Phone Edition, and
so you should use the SDK for that. However, that SDK will not work with
eVC. So you can use the newest Pocket PC SDK that works with eVC, and
that is the one for Pocket PC 2003.
The good news is that you _can_ create executables that will run on
your device (I do something similar all the time). The (probably
minor) bad news is that you will not be able to use new features. The
more bothersome bad news is that you will not be able to debug directly
on the device, because eVC is very fussy about differences between the
target platform (Pocket PC 2003) and actual platform (Windows Mobile 5
Pocket PC Phone Edition).
Each SDK targets a specific "platform". A "platform" is a combination
of hardware, the underlying operating system (Windows CE), tweaks to
that operating system (additions and subtractions), and applications.
Examples are Pocket PC 2003, Smartphone 2003, Windows Mobile 5 Pocket
PC Phone Edition, etc.
The requirements on the download page say it requires Visual Studio
2005. That means it will not work with eVC.
Post by Chris Tacke, MVP
He can always dynamically load new features with LoadLibrary/GetProcAddress.
Ugly, but it would work if he needs them.
I have never tried, but you *might* be able to just change the platform ID in
the device registry to fool Platman into thinking you actually have a PPC
2003 device. The debugger would then work (in theory). Worht a try anyway.
-Chris
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Paul,
Actually I do (the phones firmware was upgraded), how did you know ? :-)
To be honest, I have *no idea* what I want in terms of specific software. I
tried my best to find software apropriate for the task at hand, but still
had to pick something in good faith.
I do have a bit of a problem with your software suggestion though : I just
googeled for it and got on an MS page offering it for about $575 , which is
well beyond my current means. I am a hobbyist wanting to experiment with
what the phone can do, not a software professional.
When I searched for the WM6 SDK (I hope you ment 'Windows Mobile 6 SDK
Refresh') I found that it will also work on 'Microsoft Visual Studio 2005'
Standard Edition or above, would that be sufficient ? Anything I than
could not do/make ?
I also see it needs 'Microsoft .NET Compact Framework v2 SP2'. Funny, the
page it links to does not mention *anywhere* that it will work with WM 6 too
....
Do you know if there is maybe a sort of "quick guide" available for it ? I
cannot say I like having to blunder around pressing buttons in the hope that
one will eventually work ...
Ehrmmm .... While I *ment* to download the 'Windows Mobile 5.0 SDK for
*Smartphone*' package I somehow managed to download the 'Windows Mobile 5.0
SDK for *Pocket PC*' package instead. :-/ I only discovered that when
is was not actually made for evc4. My Apologies.
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP] <paultobey _at_ earthlink _dot_ net> schreef in
not
perhaps
the
on
you
I have
now
message
me!)
I
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Robert,
Thanks for the links. The forum looks especially interresting.
.. and that will be the next thing I am gong to download, directly after I
finish this message, thanks. I did see that package, but saw no
indication it could be applicable my phone.
Do you know of any sheet which, for programming purposes, lays out the "old"
against the "new" features ?
Well, at least than I will have something I can experiment with, which is a
*lot* more than I have now (which is nothing at all).
I allready assumed something like it. Alas, I could not find anything
linking my 'mda vario II' WM6 phone to any of the SDKs I found (not when
searching for the SDKs, nor when searching for my type of phone). It made
it impossible for me to choose one of them (too little info).
Maybe my own fault for my "try myself first first, ask help only if it does
not work" approach to it I suppose. :-)
Ehrm ... I made a mistake there : I ment to download the Smartphone SDK,
but somehow managed to download the Pocket-PC SDK instead. The first should
work with evc4, the latter does not. my apologies.
Thanks for the response & links
Regards
Rudy Wieser
and
all
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Chris,
As I often program in a non-standard language (Assembly, using Borlands
Tasm) I am quite accustomed to stuff like that. I might even be tempted to
try to edit/rework the existing libraries to include the new functions.
Its something to remember (for when I have development-envoronment running)
and try.
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
LoadLibrary/GetProcAddress.
in
anyway.
Post by R.Wieser
Alas, although two new support-programs where pushed to my phone the
executable itself was deemed incompatible with my phone (a bit expected, but
I had to try nonetheless).
Strange though : the two new support-programs arrived on my phone without
the XP firewall blocking them (got a "unsigned executable" warning for all
three of the above programs), the actual executable was blocked by it.
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
"old"
a
made
does
should
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Inagine that Windows XP has a *lot* of new features that Windows 2000 does
not and you cannot upgrade one to the other easily. That's sort of the way
Windows Mobile works. Since Windows Mobile is in the device flash, not an
infinitely expandable hard disk, like in desktop Windows, you cannot sort of
assume that "oh, the user will install Internet Explorer 8, if he does not
have it", as you can on the desktop. So, when targeting Windows Mobile, you
really have to compile your code for the specific version of the operating
system you have, not just "Windows". For that reason, the tools you use are
strongly dependent on the SDK you have to use for your device.
You also need to know that the SDK can support either native C++ development
or managed code (.NET), development or both. Further, you have to know that
.NET Framework, the .NET stuff supported on desktop Windows is NOT SUPPORTED
on Windows Mobile. There is a limited .NET framework, .NET Compact Framework,
supported on Windows Mobile. This is just another factoid that can control
which development tool you use, as some versions of the .NET CF are supported
in Visual Studio 2008, but not other versions, or Visual Studio 2005, etc.
So, if the WM6 SDK you are using requires VS2005 or later and does not work
with eMbedded VC++ 4, you cannot use eVC 4 and that is all there is to it.
Since it does support VS2005, you can use VS2005. Since it supports VS2008,
you can use that, too. Since the .NET Compact Framework 3.5 can only be
targeted from VS2008, I know that you cannot use that from VS2005, but VS2005
can target .NET CF 1.0 or 2.0, etc. I would guess that most people
developing for WM6 just bite the bullet and buy VS2008 (or maybe use the
90-day evaluation of it), and install .NET CF 3.5 on the device and use that,
but there are a large number of combinations that come up that do not really
matter for desktop Windows, where resources like hard disk are nearly
limitless and OS features are freely downloadable.
Paul T.
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Paul,
I think I can imagine that, as I write code on Windows as well as
Microcontrollers. A world of difference.
Thats part of my problem : As I have no idea what my choices are (which
software I have to combine to get a workable result), or what the different
pros and cons are between them.
Native C++ development sounds good. With only a 40 MB program-storage I
would not want to spend that on yet another layer of intermediate code.
I am not using that SDK yet (have nothing to make use of it :-) ), but I
understand what you are saying.
Assuming I use the WM6 SDK in conjuction with VS2005, do I need anything
more ? Any other software-packages ? (if so please be as specific as you
can)
From your current reply I assume I could use the above combination to write
native code for my phone, correct ?
My apologies for so many questions, but currently you seem to be my only
source of information in this regard, as my own googeling resulted in more
questions than answers I am afraid.
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP] <paultobey _at_ earthlink _dot_ net> schreef in
of
you
are
development
that
SUPPORTED
Framework,
control
supported
VS2008,
VS2005
that,
really
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Native development in C/C++ can be done with eVC, VS2005, and VS2008. The
specific target device support is, again, controlled by the SDK. If your SDK
supports eVC, you can use that. If not, you cannot, really. A WM6 device
will likely run a WM5-based application (which you could build with eVC and
the WM5 SDK), but how much progress are you going to make with no debugging
support? The requirements for each SDK are documented on the download page
at Microsoft.com.
All WM6 devices have .NET Compact Framework 2.0 in ROM, so there is no layer
cost to basing your app on managed code. If you are doing database stuff or a
lot of UI, the .NET CF is much faster to develop with than Win32.
If you use the WM6 SDK with VS2005, no, you do not need anything else in
terms of development tools. You need to download and install ActiveSync 4.5
or Windows Mobile Device Center, if you are using Vista or later, in order to
debug on the device from VS.
You'll find that a couple of hours actually trying to do something with
whatever tools and device(s) you have will teach you a lot more than anything
we'd be likely to do in the newsgroup. Once you have some deeper basis to
ask your questions, you will get more useful information from us because you will
have some context.
Paul T.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
The direct link between your device and an SDK is "Windows Mobile 5
Pocket PC Phone Edition". Microsoft has been very good about upward
compatibility, so executables built for older platforms (e.g. Pocket
PC 2003) usually work on newer platforms (e.g. WM 5 Pocket PC). .
No. I do not know of any concise comparison of features for any two
versions of Windows ("big" or CE - the operating system inside Windows
Mobile).
Your device was originally a Windows Mobile 5.0 Pocket PC Phone
Edition. You may have updated it to Windows Mobile 6, but it is still
a Pocket PC (well, see next paragraph). So you _do_ need a Pocket PC
SDK. You may be able to get something to work using a Smartphone SDK,
but you will almost certainly not have any touch support. The eVC
compatibility problem is not Smartphone vs Pocket PC, but Windows
Mobile 5 vs Windows Mobile 2003 (not really official name, but close
enough for this context).
Microsoft made a nomenclatural mess. What were called "Pocket PC",
"Pocket PC Phone Edition", and "Smartphone" for WM 5 were called
"Classic", "Professional", and "Standard" for WM6. So, I suppose your
device is now "Windows Mobile 6 Professional".
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
clip
A sore point for many. One of several ways Microsoft has done a lousy
job cultivating the mass of developers and apps seen for other
devices.
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).
Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Let me emphasize that my normal procedure is to build for the original
Pocket PC (older than Pocket PC 2003 _and_ Pocket PC 2002) and run on
everything newer, including WM 6. I see warnings about lack of
certification, but nothing about actual incompatibility. So _I_ am
surprised your app was "deemed incompatible". Are you sure you built
for the actual device, rather than the emulator? Are you sure the
message said incompatible, rather than not certified? (Hmm, my tone
seems argumentative; not my intent, but I really think we can solve
_this_ compatibility issue.)
If you are willing to trust me, I can send an executable built for
Pocket PC that should work on your device. I just confirmed that it
works on my JasJar that was originally WM 5 Pocket PC Phone Edition
but has been updated to WM 6. So it will be a good test of my notion.
See my signature to send me email directly.
Who "pushed" the support programs? And how? Not something I
experience.
Post by R.Wieser
Help Paul,
Well, I will have to find the right SDK for my phone, will not I ? The only
problem is that I have no idea which one. I did download the 'pocket pc
2003' SDK, but it does not seem to be able to generate code compatible to my
phone.
I am not sure, but likely more that I am making now. :-)
Lets first come to the point that I can create something, *anything* that
will run on my phone (even a measly "hello world" app). After that I will
worry about learning something.
Thanks for the response though.
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP] <paultobey _at_ earthlink _dot_ net> schreef in
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Robert,
The programming-environment send them to the phone. I have no idea what
their names where, and could not find them back on the phone.
Last week I tried to build the app in all four modi : emulator/ARMV4 and
debug/release, and none worked.
After presing F7 and getting a compiler-warining about a missing "vibrate.h"
file and an ActiveSync box appeared (uploading the app) a message-box popped
"The ARM SA1100 CPU does not support configuration Test2 - Win32 (WCE ARMV4)
Release!
The executable will not run on device."
I ignored that (assuming that one of the above-mentioned four modi should
work), but got, after the "unsigned" messages, the "incompatible" message on
the phone all four times.
-- Fast-forward to today.
I just retried the whole thing so I could write down the exact
error-messages. I did choose the "ARMV4 - release" option and pressed F7.
The missing file warning as well as the ActiveSync box where still there,
The "The executable will not run on device" message appeared too.
The only thing different ? Nonwithstanding the above message the app on the
phone ran. I have no idea why (twice : why not last week, and why
nonwithstanding that above message), and that bothers me. :-/
Any idea what that "The executable will not run on device." message means
and/or what I have to do to "fix" it ?
One other thing : Deleting the executable posed a problem. The phone
complained that the app was stil in use. Only after some time grumbling I
had a brain-fart and decided to take a look under configuration -> system ->
memory I noticed the program was still running. Stopping it there enabled me
to delete the app.
1) Any idea why ?
2) Can I disable the "stay running" in my test-programs (any setting I can
change) ?
3) Is there a short-cut to stop running programs fast ?
As a last (for this time) question : what are the "wce emulator"
debug/release options supposed to do ? Currently they are not really
usefull. Could I un-install the "Standard SDK for Windows CE .NET" SDK and
be rid of them (am asking so I do not have to risk de- and re-install the
whole thing just to test it) ?
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=06111a3a-a651-4745-88ef-3d48091a390b
If it is a touchscreen device, use the Professional SDK; if not, Standard.
Now, the PPC2003 SDK WILL generate a runnable application for your target
device, if it is a touchscreen device. I have done that many times. You cannot
use the programming environment (IDE), to download or debug it, if you have
targeted the wrong platform, but 95% of API is the same in WM6.1 Pro and
PPC2003.
I hope that it is obvious, as you are doing a build using whatever SDK you
have, that you have to target the right device type. You cannot target the
emulator and expect the same EXE to run on the real device. You need to
select the correct processor type (PPC devices do NOT run x86's like your
PC), and target device (Pocket PC Device, or something like that).
Paul T.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
What is "the programming-environment"?
clip
That is probably your compiler IDE complaining because the target and
actual platforms are not the same.
I do not know why the IDE let the app install this time and not last
time. I suggest copying (probably using ActiveSync) and running the
app yourself, without any "help" from the IDE.
See above.
By default, the "close" button on Windows Mobile only hides a program;
it does not close it. This is a Microsoft decision that has been much
discussed. I just used Google
(http://groups.google.com/advanced_search?q=&) to look up
close button
in microsoft.public.pocketpc.developer (the more appropriate group for
this discussion) and got 165 hits. I am in a rush right now, so I
did not look further.
The SDK/IDE combination includes an emulator, so you can do some
testing without a real device. You need to compile separately for the
emulator and for a real device. Debug builds include more info, and
let you walk through your program one source line at a time. Release
builds are smaller and faster (thus appropriate for public release).
If you do not understand these terms, I strongly recommend taking some
time with basic tutorials or books. As a start, I suggest using google
(see above) to look up
newbie
in microsoft.public.pocketpc.developer (in this context, "newbie" is
useful, not an insult).
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Paul,
Sorry for the long delay, something requested my attention.
Upgraded to WM6, yes. I am going to see if VS2005 (not as expensive) can be
something for me.
I hoped that the emulator could give me, apart from platform-specific stuff,
an impression of what the program would do. Currently not even programs
compiled for the "standard sdk" wish to be emulated. <huh>
Thanks for the response.
Rudy Wieser
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP] <paultobey _at_ earthlink _dot_ net> schreef in
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=0611
1a3a-a651-4745-88ef-3d48091a390b
cannot
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Robert,
Sorry for the late reply, I became occupied with something else.
EVC4 and the SDK. No idea which part/program actually did initiate the
upload of those support(?) programs though.
Currently the uploading seems to go O.K. , though I am a bit taken aback
that the uploading of the executable does not give any kind of warning/error
when it fails to replace the executable on the phone (due to it not having
been closed, but only hidden and still present in memory).
...
Yes, that explains it.
I have followed most of those links, and found that most where about
*disabeling* the close-button, quite the opposite of what I want to do. :-)
I even found a command named "CommandBar_AddAdornments" (which did not work
for me) to which google showed just *2* hits. Truly amazing.
Even though I do, I would like to see/check-out those tutorials pertaining
to programming EVC4 for POCKET PC2003 (which is what I have installed). Is
quite likely they contain information I am not yet/really aware of and could
therefore be helpfull. I cannot say I found, during my search for what to
do to get EVC4 running in conjunction with my phone, any of them myself ...
programming in general, so its in no way an insult. Thanks for the
suggestion, I will check it out.
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
F7.
the
There is no "Standard" SDK. Yes, there is a thing called the "Standard SDK",
but it is not standard. A device vendor can choose to include the pieces that
the "Standard SDK" requires or not. If not, targeting your code at a
Standard SDK device will certainly fail on the real device. Further, the
Standard SDK is missing a significant number of things that useful devices
have and many behaviors that Windows Mobile devices *require*, so it is not a
suitable target for testing Windows Mobile applications.
USE THE WINDOWS MOBILE SDK FOR THE TARGET DEVICE TYPE YOUR APPLICATION
ACTUALLY TARGETS. THE WINDOWS MOBILE SDKS ALL HAVE EMULATORS FOR THE TARGET
DEVICES AND YOU CAN USE THOSE TO OBSERVE GENERAL BEHAVIORS OF THE OS ON THE
DEVICE. As soon as you try to rig up some shortcut because you do not want to
get VS2008, you are off the map and anything that happens is just as likely to
mislead you. Use the supported tools with the right SDK and you will get
appropriate results.
Paul T.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Or target a real device and expect the EXE to run on an emulator.
If you want to run a program on an emulator, you need to build
(compile and link) your program for that emulator. If you are using
eVC and the "standard" SDK, then you need to build for the "standard"
SDK emulator. In the IDE, make sure the "WCE configuration" toolbar is
visible and make the appropriate selection in _all_ of the drop downs.
And note that eVC 4 can be lazy and not realize that "device" is not a
valid choice in the right-most drop down when you have chosen an
emulator build in the next drop down (this sentence should be much
clearer when you look at the IDE and the drop downs).
One of the _very_ few uses for the standard SDK is to get a newbie up
and running. You can build and debug directly within the IDE. But once
you have convinced yourself that you can do that much, you really need
to switch to a real SDK.
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).
Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Paul,
Seeing your captioned lines I think we have a misunderstanding.
I compiled with the "StandardSDK", "WIN32 (WSE Emulator) Debug", "Standard
SDK Emulator" settings. Although that goes OK and eventually an
emulation-window pops up, no emulation takes place. Reason ? No
connnection can be made due to the emulater not being able to open an
"Emulated ethernet switch driver" component. Suggested action : Re-install
the emulator.
Mind you, this is on a machine on which the EVC4 (and the Pocket PC 2003
SDK) have been installed just recently, with no other apps on it.
In short : I was expressing bewilderment at a default install refusing to do
even its basic stuff (and secretly hoping I would be told that I just missed
a setting somewere).
In the above case my target was that emulator.
I did not. I used a standard EVC4 install, and *as far as I can tell*
legitimate compile-settings.
"off the map" ? It may not be the last version (now with even more bells
and whistles), but that EVC4 came straight from MS itself.
I think I am using them, and no I do not. See above.
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
P.s.
Yesterday I wrote my first working phone-app : a simple listview which
displays the contents of a database (I created earlier from my PC using the
RAPI functions).
I allso found that if I use a dialog instead of creating the window by hand
it will, when closing the app, *really* close and not linger in memory.
-- Origional message.
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP] <paultobey _at_ earthlink _dot_ net> schreef in
SDK",
that
a
TARGET
THE
to
to
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Paul,
cross-compiling).
As far as I can tell, I did. I compiled with the "StandardSDK", "WIN32
(WSE Emulator) Debug", "Standard SDK Emulator" settings. Currently (just
checked) I get an error from the emulator that it cannot open an "Emulated
ethernet switch driver" component. No idea why though.
I used it to see if the installation went O.K. Seeing that it was not able
to emulate anything I had to assume something went wrong. As the suggested
solution was to re-install that was less than helpfull. The net result was
confusion (what did I do wrong ? How to solve it ?)
Nope. Currently will not work for me ...
That was kind of my intention all along. But the higher the cost of the
product (in this case software), the stronger my urge to make sure its what
I actually need becomes.
The day-before-yesterday I got the "hello world" app compiled, transferred
and working on my phone (Yay!).
Yesterday I wrote a simpe app which displayed the contents of a database (I
created earlier from my PC using the RAPI functions) in a listview. I allso
found that using a dialog as the main window gets rid of the "close-button
does not close" (just minimizes/hides the app) problem too.
So, although I am not quite happy with the complexity/inabilities of the
environment (had to add the SysListview32 component into the .RC file by
hand) I can say I have successfully done my first steps. :-)
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
stuff,
please indicate which newsgroup and message).
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
We're working back in the distant past for me with eVC4, but I recall there
being an add-on download that would install the emulator's Ethernet adapter.
If I remember right, this was something that MS extracted from Virtual PC and
made available. Maybe it came with one of the eVC service packs. You could
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=4a4ed1f4-91d3-4dbe-986e-a812984318e5
and, if that does not work, b) look around and see if you cannot find some old
references in the newsgroups to the emulator Ethernet component. You can use
GoogleGroups Advanced Search to search newsgroups
microsoft.public.windowsce.*.
Again, though, what you are trying to do, given the equipment you have
(WM6.1), is, in my opinion, a complete waste of your time. What you will end
up with is an emulation of something that you do not have, that does not work
the way your actual target works, etc.
"Standard" is a complete and total misnomer. Microsoft stepped on itself
with the name of that SDK and has misled hundreds of people into thinking
that because this thing says "Standard" on it that it means that it is like an
average device. That's total garbage. Uninstall the Standard SDK
completely; I say it is absolutely useless. If you are determined to use
tools that are eight years out of date, eVC, then at least install the Pocket
PC 2003 SDK for it. That's a distant relative to the device that you
actually have, at least. Standard SDK has no relationship with your actual
device AT ALL.
No, there is no THE EMULATOR. There are emulators for various device
classes. The only emulator that makes sense for you is the one for WM6.1,
since that is the actual target device. Windows CE is not AN operating
system. it is a set of operating system components that can be assembled in
an almost-infinite number of ways by a device vendor. it is not possible to
emulate A Windows CE device with a single emulator, for this reason.
You're using something that is a dumb 'product', the Standard SDK, that
Microsoft finally abandoned because it was so silly. And, you are trying to
use it as a basis for development of a Windows Mobile application, when
Windows Mobile devices have many behaviors that the Standard SDK emulator
does not. That's the shortcut I am talking about. Use the real emulator for
the real device class you actually have, and you will get useful results.
Yes, Quick Basic came from MS, too. Are you going to use that? You have a
modern device, three generations later than the emulator that comes with eVC4
for devices of the same general type (NOT STANDARD SDK -- uninstall that
stupid thing!, but Pocket PC Emulator), but you are trying to use the wrong
SDK, the wrong emulator, and the wrong development environment to write your
code. You are off the map. It is possible to make it work, but you do not
have the level of experience with the tools and target platforms to make it
practical to do this. Robert has done this for years and, for him, yes, it is
practical.
Paul T.
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Paul,
I checked, but allready have SP4 installed (was not sure if it was SP3 or
SP4).
At the momemnt of my writing that I did not know that. I was in the
assumption that the "standard SDK" was usable to test code without any
regard to a specific device (a sort of "minimum requirements" environment).
I was not sure I could (and did not want to meddle around in something that,
at last, worked), but allready thought about it. I will probably do it
directly after finishing this mesage.
Allready done. Its what I used as target for those "hello world" and
DBase-viewer apps I mentioned earlier.
Than its too bad its still part of and installed by default by the EVC4
package and, with no real (for a beginner) mentioning of the other options.
Probably, yes. If I cannot find an assembler that I can use to create
Pocket-PC executables with I will probably try and see if I can use it to take
a peek into an EVC4 generated executable generate one myself. You will be
amazed what Quick Basic still can do.
Yes, I am that kind of a hobbyist. :-)
"Off the map" ? Not quite. I tried to make sense of what that "Standard
SDK" could mean/do for me. Without adequate information I had/have no
other choice than to try, and if that does not work, ask. I did (hence these
posts), and currently can conclude (with you guys help, thanks) that its
prety-much worthless.
I allready did install the "Pocket PC 2003 SDK", which enabled me to get
that first "Hello world!" app working on my phone. I think that also did
put me "on the map" again.
I am not sure at what level you regard something to work, but I currently can
write apps that run on my device. I will probably keep doing that for some
time to see what I can make and when EVC4/Pocket PC 2003 SDK becomes
restrictive (instead of aiding). At that point its early enough to think
about spending money on VS2005 or VS2008.
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP] <paultobey _at_ earthlink _dot_ net> schreef in
there
adapter.
and
could
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=4a4e
d1f4-91d3-4dbe-986e-a812984318e5
old
use
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
I know. That's one of the many reasons that many of us hounded Microsoft to
drop that SDK. It just sounds like "here you go. this is all you need".
Now you should be able to select the PPC2003 Emulator as the target, set the
processor type to the emulator, and try your code on the processor. I think
that Robert is right about the network card being the issue with the emulator
not starting correctly.
eVC has not even been updated in five years, but I know what you mean.
That's sort of the hazard of making a big mistake with a free product; it
never really leaves the market, so users keep reliving the mistake
indefinitely.
Development tools that cannot debug on the target device are useless for
anything 'real'. Yes, you can play around and maybe it is not too big a deal
for something like a Today screen extension, since you cannot really debug
those using application tools anyway. Even if I am just screwing around with
a device, trying to add something that would help me a little or fix a minor
problem with the default code, I value my time too highly to live without
single-stepping, variable inspection, etc. It would not be too many of my
hours before the cost of VS would be paid for.
I am glad you have got something to work with, at least!
Paul T.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
You're replying to Robert, not to me!
The emulation environment itself is failing, not the operating system
running inside it, so there is no way for the failure handling you describe to
work (the OS never runs, so it cannot display an error). Yes, it is dumb that
the environment does not present a reasonable message telling what the common
causes of the problem are. I presume that, since emulators are just
slightly-valuable tools, not actual targets that you can sell code for, MS
never really did a complete test of every possible set up.
Paul T.
You are a special case. Maybe I am better at generating unusual bugs than you
are! I am sure Rudy will balance more in your direction.
Paul T.
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Paul,
My apologies to you both.
Yes, thats what I ment. I allways assumed that when the
emulator-environment could not create a certain (not quite essential)
component (because of missing dependencies) it would just create a dummy one
instead
break if they would be started on any other computer than my own ...
I think the applicable term is "defensive programming" ?
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP] <paultobey _at_ earthlink _dot_ net> schreef in
to
that
common
There does not have to be a connected socket to some other machine, but there
has been a problem where an active and connected network adapter was needed
for networking to function in the emulator. That is, if you had an Ethernet
port on your PC, it had to actually be connected to an active network, or, if
you had a WiFi port, it had to be connected to a network, or if all you had
was dial-up Internet connectivity, you had to connect that. If none of those
were true, network emulation would not work in the emulator. It just has to
do with how the network emulation functions. I thought that that was fixed
around the time of CE4.2, but perhaps not...
Paul T.
Submitted via EggHeadCafe
SharePoint 2010 Using External List
http://www.eggheadcafe.com/tutorials/aspnet/71ee360f-d781-48d6-8243-769d96b45064/sharepoint-2010-using-external-list.aspx
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
2010-03-02 20:48:09 UTC
Permalink
If you have WM6, I think you want Visual Studio 2008 Pro and the WM6 SDK, not
eVC. Once you have the right tools installed, you have to take care to
select the target device you actually want. For example, there are perhaps
half a dozen different emulator configurations in the WM6 SDK, as well as the
target for an actual WM6 device.

Yes, you can use the WM5 SDK and assume that the code will work the same on
WM6, but you can't debug, if I recall correctly, on a WM6 device while
targeting WM5 from eVC. We might be able to help install the WM5 SDK, if you
told us what the install failure does actually say.

Paul T.
Post by R.Wieser
Hello all,
I've got a phone using WM6 and would like to write an app for it. I've
downloaded and installed EVC4 downloaded from MS-es own website, and am now
stuck.
I've tried to build the default "hello world" app (F7), but got some message
about "the Standard SDK for Windows CE .NET" and the choosen (not by me!)
processor being incompatible and "cannot be run on the emulator device".
When I than try to run the app (F5) I get the same error-message but
nonetheless the "standard SDK" emulator starts. Alas, only to show an
(pretty-much) empty screen.
I did try to find some info using Google, but in vain.
In short, I'm at a loss to what to do or where to look for any advice. I
surely could use some help/directions.
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
.
R.Wieser
2010-03-04 09:31:45 UTC
Permalink
Hello Paul,
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
If you have WM6
Actually I do (the phones firmware was upgraded), how did you know ? :-)
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
I think you want Visual Studio 2008 Pro and the WM6 SDK,
not eVC
To be honest, I have *no idea* what I want in terms of specific software. I
tried my best to find software apropriate for the task at hand, but still
had to pick something in good faith.

I do have a bit of a problem with your software suggestion though : I just
googeled for it and got on an MS page offering it for about $575 , which is
well beyond my current means. I'm a hobbyist wanting to experiment with
what the phone can do, not a software professional.

When I searched for the WM6 SDK (I hope you ment 'Windows Mobile 6 SDK
Refresh') I found that it will also work on 'Microsoft Visual Studio 2005'
Standard Edition or above, would that be sufficient ? Anything I than
couldn't do/make ?

I also see it needs 'Microsoft .NET Compact Framework v2 SP2'. Funny, the
page it links to does not mention *anywhere* that it will work with WM 6 too
....
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Once you have the right tools installed, you have to take care to
select the target device you actually want.
Do you know if there is maybe a sort of "quick guide" available for it ? I
can't say I like having to blunder around pressing buttons in the hope that
one will eventually work ...
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
We might be able to help install the WM5 SDK, if you
told us what the install failure does actually say.
Ehrmmm .... While I *ment* to download the 'Windows Mobile 5.0 SDK for
*Smartphone*' package I somehow managed to download the 'Windows Mobile 5.0
SDK for *Pocket PC*' package instead. :-/ I only discovered that when
double-checking it on Robert E. Zaret's (***@pen_fact.com) remark that
is wasn't actually made for evc4. My Apologies.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


-- Origional mesage:
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP] <paultobey _at_ earthlink _dot_ net> schreef in
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
If you have WM6, I think you want Visual Studio 2008 Pro and the WM6 SDK, not
eVC. Once you have the right tools installed, you have to take care to
select the target device you actually want. For example, there are perhaps
half a dozen different emulator configurations in the WM6 SDK, as well as the
target for an actual WM6 device.
Yes, you can use the WM5 SDK and assume that the code will work the same on
WM6, but you can't debug, if I recall correctly, on a WM6 device while
targeting WM5 from eVC. We might be able to help install the WM5 SDK, if you
told us what the install failure does actually say.
Paul T.
Post by R.Wieser
Hello all,
I've got a phone using WM6 and would like to write an app for it.
I've
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Post by R.Wieser
downloaded and installed EVC4 downloaded from MS-es own website, and am now
stuck.
I've tried to build the default "hello world" app (F7), but got some message
about "the Standard SDK for Windows CE .NET" and the choosen (not by me!)
processor being incompatible and "cannot be run on the emulator device".
When I than try to run the app (F5) I get the same error-message but
nonetheless the "standard SDK" emulator starts. Alas, only to show an
(pretty-much) empty screen.
I did try to find some info using Google, but in vain.
In short, I'm at a loss to what to do or where to look for any advice.
I
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Post by R.Wieser
surely could use some help/directions.
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
2010-03-04 17:48:01 UTC
Permalink
This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.
R.Wieser
2010-03-04 21:30:09 UTC
Permalink
Hello Paul,
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Inagine that Windows XP has a *lot* of new features that
Windows 2000 does not and you can't upgrade one to the
other easily. That's sort of the way Windows Mobile works.
I think I can imagine that, as I write code on Windows as well as
Microcontrollers. A world of difference.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
For that reason, the tools you use are strongly dependent on
the SDK you have to use for your device.
Thats part of my problem : As I have no idea what my choices are (which
software I have to combine to get a workable result), or what the different
pros and cons are between them.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
You also need to know that the SDK can support either native
C++ development or managed code (.NET), development or both
Native C++ development sounds good. With only a 40 MB program-storage I
would not want to spend that on yet another layer of intermediate code.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
So, if the WM6 SDK you're using requires VS2005 or later
and does not work with eMbedded VC++ 4, you can't use
eVC 4 and that's all there is to it.
I'm not using that SDK yet (have nothing to make use of it :-) ), but I
understand what you're saying.

Assuming I use the WM6 SDK in conjuction with VS2005, do I need anything
more ? Any other software-packages ? (if so please be as specific as you
can)

From your current reply I assume I could use the above combination to write
native code for my phone, correct ?

My apologies for so many questions, but currently you seem to be my only
source of information in this regard, as my own googeling resulted in more
questions than answers I'm afraid.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


-- Origional message:
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP] <paultobey _at_ earthlink _dot_ net> schreef in
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Inagine that Windows XP has a *lot* of new features that Windows 2000 does
not and you can't upgrade one to the other easily. That's sort of the way
Windows Mobile works. Since Windows Mobile is in the device flash, not an
infinitely expandable hard disk, like in desktop Windows, you can't sort of
assume that "oh, the user will install Internet Explorer 8, if he doesn't
have it", as you can on the desktop. So, when targeting Windows Mobile, you
really have to compile your code for the specific version of the operating
system you have, not just "Windows". For that reason, the tools you use are
strongly dependent on the SDK you have to use for your device.
You also need to know that the SDK can support either native C++ development
or managed code (.NET), development or both. Further, you have to know that
.NET Framework, the .NET stuff supported on desktop Windows is NOT SUPPORTED
on Windows Mobile. There is a limited .NET framework, .NET Compact Framework,
supported on Windows Mobile. This is just another factoid that can control
which development tool you use, as some versions of the .NET CF are supported
in Visual Studio 2008, but not other versions, or Visual Studio 2005, etc.
So, if the WM6 SDK you're using requires VS2005 or later and does not work
with eMbedded VC++ 4, you can't use eVC 4 and that's all there is to it.
Since it does support VS2005, you can use VS2005. Since it supports VS2008,
you can use that, too. Since the .NET Compact Framework 3.5 can only be
targeted from VS2008, I know that you can't use that from VS2005, but VS2005
can target .NET CF 1.0 or 2.0, etc. I would guess that most people
developing for WM6 just bite the bullet and buy VS2008 (or maybe use the
90-day evaluation of it), and install .NET CF 3.5 on the device and use that,
but there are a large number of combinations that come up that don't really
matter for desktop Windows, where resources like hard disk are nearly
limitless and OS features are freely downloadable.
Paul T.
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
2010-03-04 22:21:01 UTC
Permalink
Native development in C/C++ can be done with eVC, VS2005, and VS2008. The
specific target device support is, again, controlled by the SDK. If your SDK
supports eVC, you can use that. If not, you can't, really. A WM6 device
will likely run a WM5-based application (which you could build with eVC and
the WM5 SDK), but how much progress are you going to make with no debugging
support? The requirements for each SDK are documented on the download page
at Microsoft.com.

All WM6 devices have .NET Compact Framework 2.0 in ROM, so there's no layer
cost to basing your app on managed code. If you're doing database stuff or a
lot of UI, the .NET CF is much faster to develop with than Win32.

If you use the WM6 SDK with VS2005, no, you don't need anything else in
terms of development tools. You need to download and install ActiveSync 4.5
or Windows Mobile Device Center, if you're using Vista or later, in order to
debug on the device from VS.

You'll find that a couple of hours actually trying to do something with
whatever tools and device(s) you have will teach you a lot more than anything
we'd be likely to do in the newsgroup. Once you have some deeper basis to
ask your questions, you'll get more useful information from us because you'll
have some context.

Paul T.
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Paul,
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Inagine that Windows XP has a *lot* of new features that
Windows 2000 does not and you can't upgrade one to the
other easily. That's sort of the way Windows Mobile works.
I think I can imagine that, as I write code on Windows as well as
Microcontrollers. A world of difference.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
For that reason, the tools you use are strongly dependent on
the SDK you have to use for your device.
Thats part of my problem : As I have no idea what my choices are (which
software I have to combine to get a workable result), or what the different
pros and cons are between them.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
You also need to know that the SDK can support either native
C++ development or managed code (.NET), development or both
Native C++ development sounds good. With only a 40 MB program-storage I
would not want to spend that on yet another layer of intermediate code.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
So, if the WM6 SDK you're using requires VS2005 or later
and does not work with eMbedded VC++ 4, you can't use
eVC 4 and that's all there is to it.
I'm not using that SDK yet (have nothing to make use of it :-) ), but I
understand what you're saying.
Assuming I use the WM6 SDK in conjuction with VS2005, do I need anything
more ? Any other software-packages ? (if so please be as specific as you
can)
From your current reply I assume I could use the above combination to write
native code for my phone, correct ?
My apologies for so many questions, but currently you seem to be my only
source of information in this regard, as my own googeling resulted in more
questions than answers I'm afraid.
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP] <paultobey _at_ earthlink _dot_ net> schreef in
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Inagine that Windows XP has a *lot* of new features that Windows 2000 does
not and you can't upgrade one to the other easily. That's sort of the way
Windows Mobile works. Since Windows Mobile is in the device flash, not an
infinitely expandable hard disk, like in desktop Windows, you can't sort
of
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
assume that "oh, the user will install Internet Explorer 8, if he doesn't
have it", as you can on the desktop. So, when targeting Windows Mobile,
you
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
really have to compile your code for the specific version of the operating
system you have, not just "Windows". For that reason, the tools you use
are
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
strongly dependent on the SDK you have to use for your device.
You also need to know that the SDK can support either native C++
development
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
or managed code (.NET), development or both. Further, you have to know
that
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
.NET Framework, the .NET stuff supported on desktop Windows is NOT
SUPPORTED
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
on Windows Mobile. There is a limited .NET framework, .NET Compact
Framework,
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
supported on Windows Mobile. This is just another factoid that can
control
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
which development tool you use, as some versions of the .NET CF are
supported
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
in Visual Studio 2008, but not other versions, or Visual Studio 2005, etc.
So, if the WM6 SDK you're using requires VS2005 or later and does not work
with eMbedded VC++ 4, you can't use eVC 4 and that's all there is to it.
Since it does support VS2005, you can use VS2005. Since it supports
VS2008,
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
you can use that, too. Since the .NET Compact Framework 3.5 can only be
targeted from VS2008, I know that you can't use that from VS2005, but
VS2005
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
can target .NET CF 1.0 or 2.0, etc. I would guess that most people
developing for WM6 just bite the bullet and buy VS2008 (or maybe use the
90-day evaluation of it), and install .NET CF 3.5 on the device and use
that,
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
but there are a large number of combinations that come up that don't
really
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
matter for desktop Windows, where resources like hard disk are nearly
limitless and OS features are freely downloadable.
Paul T.
.
R.Wieser
2010-03-09 20:35:19 UTC
Permalink
Help Paul,
and VS2008. The specific target device support is, again,
controlled by the SDK. If your SDK supports eVC, you can
use that. If not, you can't, really.
Well, I'll have to find the right SDK for my phone, won't I ? The only
problem is that I have no idea which one. I did download the 'pocket pc
2003' SDK, but it does not seem to be able to generate code compatible to my
phone.
but how much progress are you going to make with no
debugging support?
I'm not sure, but likely more that I am making now. :-)
You'll find that a couple of hours actually trying to do
something with whatever tools and device(s) you have
will teach you a lot more than anything we'd be likely
to do in the newsgroup.
Lets first come to the point that I can create something, *anything* that
will run on my phone (even a measly "hello world" app). After that I'll
worry about learning something.

Thanks for the response though.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


-- Origional message:
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP] <paultobey _at_ earthlink _dot_ net> schreef in
Native development in C/C++ can be done with eVC, VS2005,
and VS2008. The specific target device support is, again,
controlled by the SDK. If your SDK supports eVC, you can use
that. If not, you can't, really. A WM6 device will likely run a
WM5-based application (which you could build with eVC and
the WM5 SDK), but how much progress are you going to make
with no debugging support? The requirements for each SDK are
documented on the download page at Microsoft.com.
All WM6 devices have .NET Compact Framework 2.0 in ROM,
so there's no layer cost to basing your app on managed code. If
you're doing database stuff or a lot of UI, the .NET CF is much
faster to develop with than Win32.
If you use the WM6 SDK with VS2005, no, you don't need
anything else in terms of development tools. You need to
download and install ActiveSync 4.5 or Windows Mobile Device
Center, if you're using Vista or later, in order to debug on the
device from VS.
You'll find that a couple of hours actually trying to do something
with whatever tools and device(s) you have will teach you a lot
more than anything we'd be likely to do in the newsgroup. Once
you have some deeper basis to ask your questions, you'll get
more useful information from us because you'll have some context.
Paul T.
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
2010-03-10 15:53:01 UTC
Permalink
Well, you SAID that it was a WM6 device, so you'd use the WM6 SDK:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=06111a3a-a651-4745-88ef-3d48091a390b

If it's a touchscreen device, use the Professional SDK; if not, Standard.

Now, the PPC2003 SDK WILL generate a runnable application for your target
device, if it's a touchscreen device. I've done that many times. You can't
use the programming environment (IDE), to download or debug it, if you've
targeted the wrong platform, but 95% of API is the same in WM6.1 Pro and
PPC2003.

I hope that it's obvious, as you're doing a build using whatever SDK you
have, that you have to target the right device type. You can't target the
emulator and expect the same EXE to run on the real device. You need to
select the correct processor type (PPC devices do NOT run x86's like your
PC), and target device (Pocket PC Device, or something like that).

Paul T.
Post by R.Wieser
Help Paul,
and VS2008. The specific target device support is, again,
controlled by the SDK. If your SDK supports eVC, you can
use that. If not, you can't, really.
Well, I'll have to find the right SDK for my phone, won't I ? The only
problem is that I have no idea which one. I did download the 'pocket pc
2003' SDK, but it does not seem to be able to generate code compatible to my
phone.
but how much progress are you going to make with no
debugging support?
I'm not sure, but likely more that I am making now. :-)
You'll find that a couple of hours actually trying to do
something with whatever tools and device(s) you have
will teach you a lot more than anything we'd be likely
to do in the newsgroup.
Lets first come to the point that I can create something, *anything* that
will run on my phone (even a measly "hello world" app). After that I'll
worry about learning something.
Thanks for the response though.
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP] <paultobey _at_ earthlink _dot_ net> schreef in
Native development in C/C++ can be done with eVC, VS2005,
and VS2008. The specific target device support is, again,
controlled by the SDK. If your SDK supports eVC, you can use
that. If not, you can't, really. A WM6 device will likely run a
WM5-based application (which you could build with eVC and
the WM5 SDK), but how much progress are you going to make
with no debugging support? The requirements for each SDK are
documented on the download page at Microsoft.com.
All WM6 devices have .NET Compact Framework 2.0 in ROM,
so there's no layer cost to basing your app on managed code. If
you're doing database stuff or a lot of UI, the .NET CF is much
faster to develop with than Win32.
If you use the WM6 SDK with VS2005, no, you don't need
anything else in terms of development tools. You need to
download and install ActiveSync 4.5 or Windows Mobile Device
Center, if you're using Vista or later, in order to debug on the
device from VS.
You'll find that a couple of hours actually trying to do something
with whatever tools and device(s) you have will teach you a lot
more than anything we'd be likely to do in the newsgroup. Once
you have some deeper basis to ask your questions, you'll get
more useful information from us because you'll have some context.
Paul T.
.
R.Wieser
2010-03-22 11:22:53 UTC
Permalink
Hello Paul,

Sorry for the long delay, something requested my attention.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Well, you SAID that it was a WM6 device, so you'd
Upgraded to WM6, yes. I'm going to see if VS2005 (not as expensive) can be
something for me.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
You can't target the emulator and expect the same
EXE to run on the real device.
I hoped that the emulator could give me, apart from platform-specific stuff,
an impression of what the program would do. Currently not even programs
compiled for the "standard sdk" wish to be emulated. <huh>

Thanks for the response.

Rudy Wieser


-- Origional message:
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP] <paultobey _at_ earthlink _dot_ net> schreef in
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=0611
1a3a-a651-4745-88ef-3d48091a390b
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
If it's a touchscreen device, use the Professional SDK; if not, Standard.
Now, the PPC2003 SDK WILL generate a runnable application for your target
device, if it's a touchscreen device. I've done that many times. You can't
use the programming environment (IDE), to download or debug it, if you've
targeted the wrong platform, but 95% of API is the same in WM6.1 Pro and
PPC2003.
I hope that it's obvious, as you're doing a build using whatever SDK you
have, that you have to target the right device type. You can't target the
emulator and expect the same EXE to run on the real device. You need to
select the correct processor type (PPC devices do NOT run x86's like your
PC), and target device (Pocket PC Device, or something like that).
Paul T.
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
2010-03-22 16:30:02 UTC
Permalink
There is no "Standard" SDK. Yes, there's a thing called the "Standard SDK",
but it's not standard. A device vendor can choose to include the pieces that
the "Standard SDK" requires or not. If not, targeting your code at a
Standard SDK device will certainly fail on the real device. Further, the
Standard SDK is missing a significant number of things that useful devices
have and many behaviors that Windows Mobile devices *require*, so it's not a
suitable target for testing Windows Mobile applications.

USE THE WINDOWS MOBILE SDK FOR THE TARGET DEVICE TYPE YOUR APPLICATION
ACTUALLY TARGETS. THE WINDOWS MOBILE SDKS ALL HAVE EMULATORS FOR THE TARGET
DEVICES AND YOU CAN USE THOSE TO OBSERVE GENERAL BEHAVIORS OF THE OS ON THE
DEVICE. As soon as you try to rig up some shortcut because you don't want to
get VS2008, you're off the map and anything that happens is just as likely to
mislead you. Use the supported tools with the right SDK and you'll get
appropriate results.

Paul T.
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Paul,
Sorry for the long delay, something requested my attention.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Well, you SAID that it was a WM6 device, so you'd
Upgraded to WM6, yes. I'm going to see if VS2005 (not as expensive) can be
something for me.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
You can't target the emulator and expect the same
EXE to run on the real device.
I hoped that the emulator could give me, apart from platform-specific stuff,
an impression of what the program would do. Currently not even programs
compiled for the "standard sdk" wish to be emulated. <huh>
Thanks for the response.
Rudy Wieser
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP] <paultobey _at_ earthlink _dot_ net> schreef in
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=0611
1a3a-a651-4745-88ef-3d48091a390b
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
If it's a touchscreen device, use the Professional SDK; if not, Standard.
Now, the PPC2003 SDK WILL generate a runnable application for your target
device, if it's a touchscreen device. I've done that many times. You
can't
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
use the programming environment (IDE), to download or debug it, if you've
targeted the wrong platform, but 95% of API is the same in WM6.1 Pro and
PPC2003.
I hope that it's obvious, as you're doing a build using whatever SDK you
have, that you have to target the right device type. You can't target the
emulator and expect the same EXE to run on the real device. You need to
select the correct processor type (PPC devices do NOT run x86's like your
PC), and target device (Pocket PC Device, or something like that).
Paul T.
.
R.Wieser
2010-03-23 10:37:41 UTC
Permalink
Hello Paul,
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
There is no "Standard" SDK. Yes, there's a thing called
the "Standard SDK", but it's not standard.
Seeing your captioned lines I think we have a misunderstanding.

I compiled with the "StandardSDK", "WIN32 (WSE Emulator) Debug", "Standard
SDK Emulator" settings. Although that goes OK and eventually an
emulation-window pops up, no emulation takes place. Reason ? No
connnection can be made due to the emulater not being able to open an
"Emulated ethernet switch driver" component. Suggested action : Re-install
the emulator.

Mind you, this is on a machine on which the EVC4 (and the Pocket PC 2003
SDK) have been installed just recently, with no other apps on it.

In short : I was expressing bewilderment at a default install refusing to do
even its basic stuff (and secretly hoping I would be told that I just missed
a setting somewere).
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
USE THE WINDOWS MOBILE SDK FOR THE
TARGET DEVICE TYPE YOUR APPLICATION
ACTUALLY TARGETS.
In the above case my target was that emulator.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
As soon as you try to rig up some shortcut
I didn't. I used a standard EVC4 install, and *as far as I can tell*
legitimate compile-settings.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
because you don't want to get VS2008, you're off the map
and anything that happens is just as likely to mislead you.
"off the map" ? It may not be the last version (now with even more bells
and whistles), but that EVC4 came straight from MS itself.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Use the supported tools with the right SDK and you'll
get appropriate results.
I think I'm using them, and no I don't. See above.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

P.s.
Yesterday I wrote my first working phone-app : a simple listview which
displays the contents of a database (I created earlier from my PC using the
RAPI functions).
I allso found that if I use a dialog instead of creating the window by hand
it will, when closing the app, *really* close and not linger in memory.


-- Origional message.
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP] <paultobey _at_ earthlink _dot_ net> schreef in
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
There is no "Standard" SDK. Yes, there's a thing called the "Standard SDK",
but it's not standard. A device vendor can choose to include the pieces that
the "Standard SDK" requires or not. If not, targeting your code at a
Standard SDK device will certainly fail on the real device. Further, the
Standard SDK is missing a significant number of things that useful devices
have and many behaviors that Windows Mobile devices *require*, so it's not a
suitable target for testing Windows Mobile applications.
USE THE WINDOWS MOBILE SDK FOR THE TARGET DEVICE TYPE YOUR APPLICATION
ACTUALLY TARGETS. THE WINDOWS MOBILE SDKS ALL HAVE EMULATORS FOR THE TARGET
DEVICES AND YOU CAN USE THOSE TO OBSERVE GENERAL BEHAVIORS OF THE OS ON THE
DEVICE. As soon as you try to rig up some shortcut because you don't want to
get VS2008, you're off the map and anything that happens is just as likely to
mislead you. Use the supported tools with the right SDK and you'll get
appropriate results.
Paul T.
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
2010-03-23 15:42:01 UTC
Permalink
We're working back in the distant past for me with eVC4, but I recall there
being an add-on download that would install the emulator's Ethernet adapter.
If I remember right, this was something that MS extracted from Virtual PC and
made available. Maybe it came with one of the eVC service packs. You could
try a) download and install eVC4 SP4:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=4a4ed1f4-91d3-4dbe-986e-a812984318e5

and, if that doesn't work, b) look around and see if you can't find some old
references in the newsgroups to the emulator Ethernet component. You can use
GoogleGroups Advanced Search to search newsgroups
microsoft.public.windowsce.*.

Again, though, what you're trying to do, given the equipment you have
(WM6.1), is, in my opinion, a complete waste of your time. What you'll end
up with is an emulation of something that you don't have, that doesn't work
the way your actual target works, etc.
Post by R.Wieser
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
There is no "Standard" SDK. Yes, there's a thing called
the "Standard SDK", but it's not standard.
Seeing your captioned lines I think we have a misunderstanding.
"Standard" is a complete and total misnomer. Microsoft stepped on itself
with the name of that SDK and has misled hundreds of people into thinking
that because this thing says "Standard" on it that it means that it's like an
average device. That's total garbage. Uninstall the Standard SDK
completely; I say it's absolutely useless. If you are determined to use
tools that are eight years out of date, eVC, then at least install the Pocket
PC 2003 SDK for it. That's a distant relative to the device that you
actually have, at least. Standard SDK has no relationship with your actual
device AT ALL.
Post by R.Wieser
I compiled with the "StandardSDK", "WIN32 (WSE Emulator) Debug", "Standard
SDK Emulator" settings. Although that goes OK and eventually an
emulation-window pops up, no emulation takes place. Reason ? No
connnection can be made due to the emulater not being able to open an
"Emulated ethernet switch driver" component. Suggested action : Re-install
the emulator.
Mind you, this is on a machine on which the EVC4 (and the Pocket PC 2003
SDK) have been installed just recently, with no other apps on it.
In short : I was expressing bewilderment at a default install refusing to do
even its basic stuff (and secretly hoping I would be told that I just missed
a setting somewere).
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
USE THE WINDOWS MOBILE SDK FOR THE
TARGET DEVICE TYPE YOUR APPLICATION
ACTUALLY TARGETS.
In the above case my target was that emulator.
No, there is no THE EMULATOR. There are emulators for various device
classes. The only emulator that makes sense for you is the one for WM6.1,
since that's the actual target device. Windows CE is not AN operating
system. It's a set of operating system components that can be assembled in
an almost-infinite number of ways by a device vendor. It's not possible to
emulate A Windows CE device with a single emulator, for this reason.
Post by R.Wieser
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
As soon as you try to rig up some shortcut
I didn't. I used a standard EVC4 install, and *as far as I can tell*
legitimate compile-settings.
You're using something that is a dumb 'product', the Standard SDK, that
Microsoft finally abandoned because it was so silly. And, you're trying to
use it as a basis for development of a Windows Mobile application, when
Windows Mobile devices have many behaviors that the Standard SDK emulator
does not. That's the shortcut I'm talking about. Use the real emulator for
the real device class you actually have, and you'll get useful results.
Post by R.Wieser
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
because you don't want to get VS2008, you're off the map
and anything that happens is just as likely to mislead you.
"off the map" ? It may not be the last version (now with even more bells
and whistles), but that EVC4 came straight from MS itself.
Yes, Quick Basic came from MS, too. Are you going to use that? You have a
modern device, three generations later than the emulator that comes with eVC4
for devices of the same general type (NOT STANDARD SDK -- uninstall that
stupid thing!, but Pocket PC Emulator), but you're trying to use the wrong
SDK, the wrong emulator, and the wrong development environment to write your
code. You are off the map. It is possible to make it work, but you don't
have the level of experience with the tools and target platforms to make it
practical to do this. Robert has done this for years and, for him, yes, it's
practical.

Paul T.
R.Wieser
2010-03-26 12:56:42 UTC
Permalink
Hello Paul,
I checked, but allready have SP4 installed (was not sure if it was SP3 or
SP4).
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Again, though, what you're trying to do, given the equipment
you have (WM6.1), is, in my opinion, a complete waste of
your time.
At the momemnt of my writing that I did not know that. I was in the
assumption that the "standard SDK" was usable to test code without any
regard to a specific device (a sort of "minimum requirements" environment).
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Uninstall the Standard SDK completely; I say it's
absolutely useless.
I was not sure I could (and did not want to meddle around in something that,
at last, worked), but allready thought about it. I'll probably do it
directly after finishing this mesage.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
If you are determined to use tools that are eight years
out of date, eVC, then at least install the Pocket PC
2003 SDK for it.
Allready done. Its what I used as target for those "hello world" and
DBase-viewer apps I mentioned earlier.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
You're using something that is a dumb 'product', the
Standard SDK, that Microsoft finally abandoned
because it was so silly.
Than its too bad its still part of and installed by default by the EVC4
package and, with no real (for a beginner) mentioning of the other options.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Yes, Quick Basic came from MS, too. Are you going to use
that?
Probably, yes. If I can't find an assembler that I can use to create
Pocket-PC executables with I'll probably try and see if I can use it to take
a peek into an EVC4 generated executable generate one myself. You will be
amazed what Quick Basic still can do.

Yes, I'm that kind of a hobbyist. :-)
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
You have a modern device, three generations later than
the emulator that comes with eVC4 for devices of the same
general type ..., but you're trying to use the wrong SDK, the
wrong emulator, and the wrong development environment to
write your code. You are off the map.
"Off the map" ? Not quite. I tried to make sense of what that "Standard
SDK" could mean/do for me. Without adequate information I had/have no
other choice than to try, and if that does not work, ask. I did (hence these
posts), and currently can conclude (with you guys help, thanks) that its
prety-much worthless.

I allready did install the "Pocket PC 2003 SDK", which enabled me to get
that first "Hello world!" app working on my phone. I think that also did
put me "on the map" again.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
It is possible to make it work, but you don't have the level
of experience with the tools and target platforms to make it
practical to do this.
I'm not sure at what level you regard something to work, but I currently can
write apps that run on my device. I'll probably keep doing that for some
time to see what I can make and when EVC4/Pocket PC 2003 SDK becomes
restrictive (instead of aiding). At that point its early enough to think
about spending money on VS2005 or VS2008.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


-- Origional message:
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP] <paultobey _at_ earthlink _dot_ net> schreef in
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
We're working back in the distant past for me with eVC4, but I recall there
being an add-on download that would install the emulator's Ethernet adapter.
If I remember right, this was something that MS extracted from Virtual PC and
made available. Maybe it came with one of the eVC service packs. You could
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=4a4e
d1f4-91d3-4dbe-986e-a812984318e5
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
and, if that doesn't work, b) look around and see if you can't find some old
references in the newsgroups to the emulator Ethernet component. You can use
GoogleGroups Advanced Search to search newsgroups
microsoft.public.windowsce.*.
Again, though, what you're trying to do, given the equipment you have
(WM6.1), is, in my opinion, a complete waste of your time. What you'll end
up with is an emulation of something that you don't have, that doesn't work
the way your actual target works, etc.
Post by R.Wieser
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
There is no "Standard" SDK. Yes, there's a thing called
the "Standard SDK", but it's not standard.
Seeing your captioned lines I think we have a misunderstanding.
"Standard" is a complete and total misnomer. Microsoft stepped on itself
with the name of that SDK and has misled hundreds of people into thinking
that because this thing says "Standard" on it that it means that it's like an
average device. That's total garbage. Uninstall the Standard SDK
completely; I say it's absolutely useless. If you are determined to use
tools that are eight years out of date, eVC, then at least install the Pocket
PC 2003 SDK for it. That's a distant relative to the device that you
actually have, at least. Standard SDK has no relationship with your actual
device AT ALL.
Post by R.Wieser
I compiled with the "StandardSDK", "WIN32 (WSE Emulator) Debug", "Standard
SDK Emulator" settings. Although that goes OK and eventually an
emulation-window pops up, no emulation takes place. Reason ? No
connnection can be made due to the emulater not being able to open an
"Emulated ethernet switch driver" component. Suggested action : Re-install
the emulator.
Mind you, this is on a machine on which the EVC4 (and the Pocket PC 2003
SDK) have been installed just recently, with no other apps on it.
In short : I was expressing bewilderment at a default install refusing to do
even its basic stuff (and secretly hoping I would be told that I just missed
a setting somewere).
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
USE THE WINDOWS MOBILE SDK FOR THE
TARGET DEVICE TYPE YOUR APPLICATION
ACTUALLY TARGETS.
In the above case my target was that emulator.
No, there is no THE EMULATOR. There are emulators for various device
classes. The only emulator that makes sense for you is the one for WM6.1,
since that's the actual target device. Windows CE is not AN operating
system. It's a set of operating system components that can be assembled in
an almost-infinite number of ways by a device vendor. It's not possible to
emulate A Windows CE device with a single emulator, for this reason.
Post by R.Wieser
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
As soon as you try to rig up some shortcut
I didn't. I used a standard EVC4 install, and *as far as I can tell*
legitimate compile-settings.
You're using something that is a dumb 'product', the Standard SDK, that
Microsoft finally abandoned because it was so silly. And, you're trying to
use it as a basis for development of a Windows Mobile application, when
Windows Mobile devices have many behaviors that the Standard SDK emulator
does not. That's the shortcut I'm talking about. Use the real emulator for
the real device class you actually have, and you'll get useful results.
Post by R.Wieser
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
because you don't want to get VS2008, you're off the map
and anything that happens is just as likely to mislead you.
"off the map" ? It may not be the last version (now with even more bells
and whistles), but that EVC4 came straight from MS itself.
Yes, Quick Basic came from MS, too. Are you going to use that? You have a
modern device, three generations later than the emulator that comes with eVC4
for devices of the same general type (NOT STANDARD SDK -- uninstall that
stupid thing!, but Pocket PC Emulator), but you're trying to use the wrong
SDK, the wrong emulator, and the wrong development environment to write your
code. You are off the map. It is possible to make it work, but you don't
have the level of experience with the tools and target platforms to make it
practical to do this. Robert has done this for years and, for him, yes, it's
practical.
Paul T.
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
2010-03-26 16:12:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.Wieser
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Again, though, what you're trying to do, given the equipment
you have (WM6.1), is, in my opinion, a complete waste of
your time.
At the momemnt of my writing that I did not know that. I was in the
assumption that the "standard SDK" was usable to test code without any
regard to a specific device (a sort of "minimum requirements" environment).
I know. That's one of the many reasons that many of us hounded Microsoft to
drop that SDK. It just sounds like "here you go. this is all you need".
Post by R.Wieser
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
If you are determined to use tools that are eight years
out of date, eVC, then at least install the Pocket PC
2003 SDK for it.
Allready done. Its what I used as target for those "hello world" and
DBase-viewer apps I mentioned earlier.
Now you should be able to select the PPC2003 Emulator as the target, set the
processor type to the emulator, and try your code on the processor. I think
that Robert is right about the network card being the issue with the emulator
not starting correctly.
Post by R.Wieser
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
You're using something that is a dumb 'product', the
Standard SDK, that Microsoft finally abandoned
because it was so silly.
Than its too bad its still part of and installed by default by the EVC4
package and, with no real (for a beginner) mentioning of the other options.
eVC hasn't even been updated in five years, but I know what you mean.
That's sort of the hazard of making a big mistake with a free product; it
never really leaves the market, so users keep reliving the mistake
indefinitely.
Post by R.Wieser
I'm not sure at what level you regard something to work, but I currently can
write apps that run on my device. I'll probably keep doing that for some
time to see what I can make and when EVC4/Pocket PC 2003 SDK becomes
restrictive (instead of aiding). At that point its early enough to think
about spending money on VS2005 or VS2008.
Development tools that can't debug on the target device are useless for
anything 'real'. Yes, you can play around and maybe it's not too big a deal
for something like a Today screen extension, since you can't really debug
those using application tools anyway. Even if I'm just screwing around with
a device, trying to add something that would help me a little or fix a minor
problem with the default code, I value my time too highly to live without
single-stepping, variable inspection, etc. It wouldn't be too many of my
hours before the cost of VS would be paid for.

I'm glad you've got something to work with, at least!

Paul T.
r***@pen_fact.com
2010-03-26 19:08:58 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 09:12:09 -0700, Paul G. Tobey [eMVP] <paultobey
_at_ earthlink _dot_ net> wrote:

clip
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Development tools that can't debug on the target device are useless for
anything 'real'. Yes, you can play around and maybe it's not too big a deal
for something like a Today screen extension, since you can't really debug
those using application tools anyway. Even if I'm just screwing around with
a device, trying to add something that would help me a little or fix a minor
problem with the default code, I value my time too highly to live without
single-stepping, variable inspection, etc. It wouldn't be too many of my
hours before the cost of VS would be paid for.
I am an unusual case, but take exception to this. I've been a stickler
about portability, so my code runs on "big" Windows and multiple
Windows CE platforms. That means I can do most debugging on "big"
Windows, some debugging on older CE devices I have, and rarely need to
debug on a newer device. So for the very rare times when I find a bug
_only_ on a new device, tracing by MessageBox is sufficient. And our
customers sure think our programs are "real".
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
I'm glad you've got something to work with, at least!
So am I.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Paul T.
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
Bruce Eitman [eMVP]
2010-03-26 20:04:15 UTC
Permalink
"I am an unusual case" Bob, that is just begging for trouble
--
Bruce Eitman (eMVP)
Senior Engineer
Bruce.Eitman AT Eurotech DOT com
My BLOG http://geekswithblogs.net/bruceeitman

Eurotech Inc.
www.Eurotech.com
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 09:12:09 -0700, Paul G. Tobey [eMVP] <paultobey
clip
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Development tools that can't debug on the target device are useless for
anything 'real'. Yes, you can play around and maybe it's not too big a deal
for something like a Today screen extension, since you can't really debug
those using application tools anyway. Even if I'm just screwing around with
a device, trying to add something that would help me a little or fix a minor
problem with the default code, I value my time too highly to live without
single-stepping, variable inspection, etc. It wouldn't be too many of my
hours before the cost of VS would be paid for.
I am an unusual case, but take exception to this. I've been a stickler
about portability, so my code runs on "big" Windows and multiple
Windows CE platforms. That means I can do most debugging on "big"
Windows, some debugging on older CE devices I have, and rarely need to
debug on a newer device. So for the very rare times when I find a bug
_only_ on a new device, tracing by MessageBox is sufficient. And our
customers sure think our programs are "real".
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
I'm glad you've got something to work with, at least!
So am I.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Paul T.
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and
please indicate which newsgroup and message).
Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
2010-03-26 23:14:01 UTC
Permalink
You are a special case. Maybe I'm better at generating unusual bugs than you
are! I'm sure Rudy will balance more in your direction.

Paul T.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 09:12:09 -0700, Paul G. Tobey [eMVP] <paultobey
clip
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Development tools that can't debug on the target device are useless for
anything 'real'. Yes, you can play around and maybe it's not too big a deal
for something like a Today screen extension, since you can't really debug
those using application tools anyway. Even if I'm just screwing around with
a device, trying to add something that would help me a little or fix a minor
problem with the default code, I value my time too highly to live without
single-stepping, variable inspection, etc. It wouldn't be too many of my
hours before the cost of VS would be paid for.
I am an unusual case, but take exception to this. I've been a stickler
about portability, so my code runs on "big" Windows and multiple
Windows CE platforms. That means I can do most debugging on "big"
Windows, some debugging on older CE devices I have, and rarely need to
debug on a newer device. So for the very rare times when I find a bug
_only_ on a new device, tracing by MessageBox is sufficient. And our
customers sure think our programs are "real".
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
I'm glad you've got something to work with, at least!
So am I.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Paul T.
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).
Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
.
R.Wieser
2010-04-04 21:45:49 UTC
Permalink
Hello Robert,
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
I am an unusual case, but take exception to this.
Actually, so do I.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
That means I can do most debugging on "big" Windows,
Thats what I thought too.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
So for the very rare times when I find a bug _only_ on
a new device, tracing by MessageBox is sufficient
I'm not that good that I can say "for the very rare times", but I'm using
the same method (used it to debug my DBase try-out app).

Though I would like to create a *simple* connection (not dependant on
specific programming-environments) to output debugging-data with (an RS232
connection ? No idea yet if that is possible (did not research it yet)and
if so how to create one)

Rgeards,
Rudy Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 09:12:09 -0700, Paul G. Tobey [eMVP] <paultobey
clip
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Development tools that can't debug on the target device are useless for
anything 'real'. Yes, you can play around and maybe it's not too big a deal
for something like a Today screen extension, since you can't really debug
those using application tools anyway. Even if I'm just screwing around with
a device, trying to add something that would help me a little or fix a minor
problem with the default code, I value my time too highly to live without
single-stepping, variable inspection, etc. It wouldn't be too many of my
hours before the cost of VS would be paid for.
I am an unusual case, but take exception to this. I've been a stickler
about portability, so my code runs on "big" Windows and multiple
Windows CE platforms. That means I can do most debugging on "big"
Windows, some debugging on older CE devices I have, and rarely need to
debug on a newer device. So for the very rare times when I find a bug
_only_ on a new device, tracing by MessageBox is sufficient. And our
customers sure think our programs are "real".
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
I'm glad you've got something to work with, at least!
So am I.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Paul T.
r***@pen_fact.com
2010-04-05 17:55:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Robert,
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
I am an unusual case, but take exception to this.
Actually, so do I.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
That means I can do most debugging on "big" Windows,
Thats what I thought too.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
So for the very rare times when I find a bug _only_ on
a new device, tracing by MessageBox is sufficient
I'm not that good that I can say "for the very rare times", but I'm using
the same method (used it to debug my DBase try-out app).
Though I would like to create a *simple* connection (not dependant on
specific programming-environments) to output debugging-data with (an RS232
connection ? No idea yet if that is possible (did not research it yet)and
if so how to create one)
I don't know how you will devise a debugging environment that's easier
to use than eVC without doing a lot more work. Unless you mean you
will add code to your program to explicitly pump out information. S232
will probably be v-e-r-y s-l-o-w. It sure was when I used it with eVC
3.
Post by R.Wieser
Rgeards,
Rudy Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 09:12:09 -0700, Paul G. Tobey [eMVP] <paultobey
clip
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Development tools that can't debug on the target device are useless for
anything 'real'. Yes, you can play around and maybe it's not too big a
deal
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
for something like a Today screen extension, since you can't really debug
those using application tools anyway. Even if I'm just screwing around
with
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
a device, trying to add something that would help me a little or fix a
minor
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
problem with the default code, I value my time too highly to live without
single-stepping, variable inspection, etc. It wouldn't be too many of my
hours before the cost of VS would be paid for.
I am an unusual case, but take exception to this. I've been a stickler
about portability, so my code runs on "big" Windows and multiple
Windows CE platforms. That means I can do most debugging on "big"
Windows, some debugging on older CE devices I have, and rarely need to
debug on a newer device. So for the very rare times when I find a bug
_only_ on a new device, tracing by MessageBox is sufficient. And our
customers sure think our programs are "real".
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
I'm glad you've got something to work with, at least!
So am I.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
Paul T.
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
r***@pen_fact.com
2010-03-22 19:30:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Paul,
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
You can't target the emulator and expect the same
EXE to run on the real device.
Or target a real device and expect the EXE to run on an emulator.
Post by R.Wieser
I hoped that the emulator could give me, apart from platform-specific stuff,
an impression of what the program would do. Currently not even programs
compiled for the "standard sdk" wish to be emulated. <huh>
If you want to run a program on an emulator, you need to build
(compile and link) your program for that emulator. If you are using
eVC and the "standard" SDK, then you need to build for the "standard"
SDK emulator. In the IDE, make sure the "WCE configuration" toolbar is
visible and make the appropriate selection in _all_ of the drop downs.
And note that eVC 4 can be lazy and not realize that "device" is not a
valid choice in the right-most drop down when you've chosen an
emulator build in the next drop down (this sentence should be much
clearer when you look at the IDE and the drop downs).

One of the _very_ few uses for the standard SDK is to get a newbie up
and running. You can build and debug directly within the IDE. But once
you've convinced yourself that you can do that much, you really need
to switch to a real SDK.
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
R.Wieser
2010-03-23 11:04:13 UTC
Permalink
Hello Paul,
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
You can't target the emulator and expect the same
EXE to run on the real device.
Or target a real device and expect the EXE to run on an emulator.
:-) I did not assume it would (I am familiar with the concept of
cross-compiling).
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
If you want to run a program on an emulator, you need
to build (compile and link) your program for that emulator.
As far as I can tell, I did. I compiled with the "StandardSDK", "WIN32
(WSE Emulator) Debug", "Standard SDK Emulator" settings. Currently (just
checked) I get an error from the emulator that it can't open an "Emulated
ethernet switch driver" component. No idea why though.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
One of the _very_ few uses for the standard SDK is to get a newbie up
and running.
I used it to see if the installation went O.K. Seeing that it was not able
to emulate anything I had to assume something went wrong. As the suggested
solution was to re-install that was less than helpfull. The net result was
confusion (what did I do wrong ? How to solve it ?)
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
You can build and debug directly within the IDE.
Nope. Currently won't work for me ...
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
But once you've convinced yourself that you can do that
much, you really need to switch to a real SDK.
That was kind of my intention all along. But the higher the cost of the
product (in this case software), the stronger my urge to make sure its what
I actually need becomes.

But progress has been made too:

The day-before-yesterday I got the "hello world" app compiled, transferred
and working on my phone (Yay!).

Yesterday I wrote a simpe app which displayed the contents of a database (I
created earlier from my PC using the RAPI functions) in a listview. I allso
found that using a dialog as the main window gets rid of the "close-button
does not close" (just minimizes/hides the app) problem too.

So, although I'm not quite happy with the complexity/inabilities of the
environment (had to add the SysListview32 component into the .RC file by
hand) I can say I've successfully done my first steps. :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Paul,
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
You can't target the emulator and expect the same
EXE to run on the real device.
Or target a real device and expect the EXE to run on an emulator.
Post by R.Wieser
I hoped that the emulator could give me, apart from platform-specific stuff,
an impression of what the program would do. Currently not even programs
compiled for the "standard sdk" wish to be emulated. <huh>
If you want to run a program on an emulator, you need to build
(compile and link) your program for that emulator. If you are using
eVC and the "standard" SDK, then you need to build for the "standard"
SDK emulator. In the IDE, make sure the "WCE configuration" toolbar is
visible and make the appropriate selection in _all_ of the drop downs.
And note that eVC 4 can be lazy and not realize that "device" is not a
valid choice in the right-most drop down when you've chosen an
emulator build in the next drop down (this sentence should be much
clearer when you look at the IDE and the drop downs).
One of the _very_ few uses for the standard SDK is to get a newbie up
and running. You can build and debug directly within the IDE. But once
you've convinced yourself that you can do that much, you really need
to switch to a real SDK.
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and
please indicate which newsgroup and message).
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
r***@pen_fact.com
2010-03-23 14:58:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Paul,
clip
Post by R.Wieser
As far as I can tell, I did. I compiled with the "StandardSDK", "WIN32
(WSE Emulator) Debug", "Standard SDK Emulator" settings. Currently (just
checked) I get an error from the emulator that it can't open an "Emulated
ethernet switch driver" component. No idea why though.
Is your development computer connected to a network? I believe the
emulator connection won't work unless it is, or you use a work around.
I've never had the problem, so I don't know details.
Post by R.Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
One of the _very_ few uses for the standard SDK is to get a newbie up
and running.
I used it to see if the installation went O.K. Seeing that it was not able
to emulate anything I had to assume something went wrong. As the suggested
solution was to re-install that was less than helpfull. The net result was
confusion (what did I do wrong ? How to solve it ?)
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
You can build and debug directly within the IDE.
Nope. Currently won't work for me ...
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
But once you've convinced yourself that you can do that
much, you really need to switch to a real SDK.
That was kind of my intention all along. But the higher the cost of the
product (in this case software), the stronger my urge to make sure its what
I actually need becomes.
The Pocket PC SDK that works with eVC 4 is free and will be much
closer to reality than the Standard SDK.
Post by R.Wieser
The day-before-yesterday I got the "hello world" app compiled, transferred
and working on my phone (Yay!).
Yesterday I wrote a simpe app which displayed the contents of a database (I
created earlier from my PC using the RAPI functions) in a listview. I allso
found that using a dialog as the main window gets rid of the "close-button
does not close" (just minimizes/hides the app) problem too.
So, although I'm not quite happy with the complexity/inabilities of the
environment (had to add the SysListview32 component into the .RC file by
hand) I can say I've successfully done my first steps. :-)
Yes, it can be complicated.

Have you tried working with the Pocket PC emulator that comes with the
Pocket PC SDK? It would be worth trying to help narrow down the source
of some of your problems.
Post by R.Wieser
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Paul,
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
You can't target the emulator and expect the same
EXE to run on the real device.
Or target a real device and expect the EXE to run on an emulator.
Post by R.Wieser
I hoped that the emulator could give me, apart from platform-specific
stuff,
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
an impression of what the program would do. Currently not even programs
compiled for the "standard sdk" wish to be emulated. <huh>
If you want to run a program on an emulator, you need to build
(compile and link) your program for that emulator. If you are using
eVC and the "standard" SDK, then you need to build for the "standard"
SDK emulator. In the IDE, make sure the "WCE configuration" toolbar is
visible and make the appropriate selection in _all_ of the drop downs.
And note that eVC 4 can be lazy and not realize that "device" is not a
valid choice in the right-most drop down when you've chosen an
emulator build in the next drop down (this sentence should be much
clearer when you look at the IDE and the drop downs).
One of the _very_ few uses for the standard SDK is to get a newbie up
and running. You can build and debug directly within the IDE. But once
you've convinced yourself that you can do that much, you really need
to switch to a real SDK.
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and
please indicate which newsgroup and message).
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
R.Wieser
2010-03-26 12:01:28 UTC
Permalink
Hello Paul,
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Is your development computer connected to a network?
No, it isn't.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
I believe the emulator connection won't work unless it is,
or you use a work around.
I do not expect it to make a connection, but I *do* expect it to emulate it
good enough to tell me *inside the emulated device* that it can't (and not
throw an error when starting the emulator itself). :-)
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Have you tried working with the Pocket PC emulator that comes
with the Pocket PC SDK?
Actually, no. I did not even realize that the Pocket PC had its own
emulator (somehow assumed the "Standard SDK" was the only one that could)...

I just tried, and got the "Hello World!" app to run on the emulator (quite
slowly, but it works). Thanks.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
It would be worth trying to help narrow down the source
of some of your problems.
:-) As far as I can see none of my current problems are programming related.
All of them have to do with installing of the software and using of the IDE.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Paul,
clip
Post by R.Wieser
As far as I can tell, I did. I compiled with the "StandardSDK", "WIN32
(WSE Emulator) Debug", "Standard SDK Emulator" settings. Currently (just
checked) I get an error from the emulator that it can't open an "Emulated
ethernet switch driver" component. No idea why though.
Is your development computer connected to a network? I believe the
emulator connection won't work unless it is, or you use a work around.
I've never had the problem, so I don't know details.
Post by R.Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
One of the _very_ few uses for the standard SDK is to get a newbie up
and running.
I used it to see if the installation went O.K. Seeing that it was not able
to emulate anything I had to assume something went wrong. As the suggested
solution was to re-install that was less than helpfull. The net result was
confusion (what did I do wrong ? How to solve it ?)
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
You can build and debug directly within the IDE.
Nope. Currently won't work for me ...
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
But once you've convinced yourself that you can do that
much, you really need to switch to a real SDK.
That was kind of my intention all along. But the higher the cost of the
product (in this case software), the stronger my urge to make sure its what
I actually need becomes.
The Pocket PC SDK that works with eVC 4 is free and will be much
closer to reality than the Standard SDK.
Post by R.Wieser
The day-before-yesterday I got the "hello world" app compiled, transferred
and working on my phone (Yay!).
Yesterday I wrote a simpe app which displayed the contents of a database (I
created earlier from my PC using the RAPI functions) in a listview. I allso
found that using a dialog as the main window gets rid of the
"close-button
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
does not close" (just minimizes/hides the app) problem too.
So, although I'm not quite happy with the complexity/inabilities of the
environment (had to add the SysListview32 component into the .RC file by
hand) I can say I've successfully done my first steps. :-)
Yes, it can be complicated.
Have you tried working with the Pocket PC emulator that comes with the
Pocket PC SDK? It would be worth trying to help narrow down the source
of some of your problems.
Post by R.Wieser
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
2010-03-26 16:16:01 UTC
Permalink
You're replying to Robert, not to me!

The emulation environment itself is failing, not the operating system
running inside it, so there's no way for the failure handling you describe to
work (the OS never runs, so it can't display an error). Yes, it's dumb that
the environment doesn't present a reasonable message telling what the common
causes of the problem are. I presume that, since emulators are just
slightly-valuable tools, not actual targets that you can sell code for, MS
never really did a complete test of every possible set up.

Paul T.
R.Wieser
2010-04-04 21:20:38 UTC
Permalink
Hello Paul,
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
You're replying to Robert, not to me!
My apologies to you both.
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
The emulation environment itself is failing, not the operating
system running inside it,
Yes, thats what I ment. I allways assumed that when the
emulator-environment could not create a certain (not quite essential)
component (because of missing dependencies) it would just create a dummy one
instead
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
I presume that ... MS never really did a complete test of
every possible set up.
:-) If I would write my own code like that I would have apps that would
break if they would be started on any other computer than my own ...

I think the applicable term is "defensive programming" ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


-- Origional message:
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP] <paultobey _at_ earthlink _dot_ net> schreef in
Post by Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
You're replying to Robert, not to me!
The emulation environment itself is failing, not the operating system
running inside it, so there's no way for the failure handling you describe to
work (the OS never runs, so it can't display an error). Yes, it's dumb that
the environment doesn't present a reasonable message telling what the common
causes of the problem are. I presume that, since emulators are just
slightly-valuable tools, not actual targets that you can sell code for, MS
never really did a complete test of every possible set up.
Paul T.
r***@pen_fact.com
2010-03-26 19:08:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Paul,
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Is your development computer connected to a network?
No, it isn't.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
I believe the emulator connection won't work unless it is,
or you use a work around.
I do not expect it to make a connection, but I *do* expect it to emulate it
good enough to tell me *inside the emulated device* that it can't (and not
throw an error when starting the emulator itself). :-)
Oops, my wording was misleading. I meant to say that the emulator
might not run unless your computer is connected to a network or you
use a work around I've never tried.

I think you need to readjust your expectations when dealing with tools
for Pocket PC development. Especially older tools.
Post by R.Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Have you tried working with the Pocket PC emulator that comes
with the Pocket PC SDK?
Actually, no. I did not even realize that the Pocket PC had its own
emulator (somehow assumed the "Standard SDK" was the only one that could)...
I just tried, and got the "Hello World!" app to run on the emulator (quite
slowly, but it works). Thanks.
You should also know that the emulator is far from a perfect mimic of
any real device. For example, the emulator has different bugs and some
UI elements look different. No, I don't remember any specifics for
either. You'll just have to be prepared for differences so you can
deal with them when the occur.
Post by R.Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
It would be worth trying to help narrow down the source
of some of your problems.
:-) As far as I can see none of my current problems are programming related.
All of them have to do with installing of the software and using of the IDE.
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Paul,
clip
Post by R.Wieser
As far as I can tell, I did. I compiled with the "StandardSDK", "WIN32
(WSE Emulator) Debug", "Standard SDK Emulator" settings. Currently (just
checked) I get an error from the emulator that it can't open an "Emulated
ethernet switch driver" component. No idea why though.
Is your development computer connected to a network? I believe the
emulator connection won't work unless it is, or you use a work around.
I've never had the problem, so I don't know details.
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
R.Wieser
2010-04-04 21:32:54 UTC
Permalink
Hello Robert,
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Oops, my wording was misleading. I meant to say that the
emulator might not run unless your computer is connected
to a network
I assume you mean that a working connection needs to be set up before, but
does not actually needs to be active at the moment the emulator is used ?
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
or you use a work around I've never tried.
I've found the perfect "work-around" : I un-installed that "Standard" SDK.
:-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Paul,
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Is your development computer connected to a network?
No, it isn't.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
I believe the emulator connection won't work unless it is,
or you use a work around.
I do not expect it to make a connection, but I *do* expect it to emulate it
good enough to tell me *inside the emulated device* that it can't (and not
throw an error when starting the emulator itself). :-)
Oops, my wording was misleading. I meant to say that the emulator
might not run unless your computer is connected to a network or you
use a work around I've never tried.
I think you need to readjust your expectations when dealing with tools
for Pocket PC development. Especially older tools.
Post by R.Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Have you tried working with the Pocket PC emulator that comes
with the Pocket PC SDK?
Actually, no. I did not even realize that the Pocket PC had its own
emulator (somehow assumed the "Standard SDK" was the only one that could)...
I just tried, and got the "Hello World!" app to run on the emulator (quite
slowly, but it works). Thanks.
You should also know that the emulator is far from a perfect mimic of
any real device. For example, the emulator has different bugs and some
UI elements look different. No, I don't remember any specifics for
either. You'll just have to be prepared for differences so you can
deal with them when the occur.
Post by R.Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
It would be worth trying to help narrow down the source
of some of your problems.
:-) As far as I can see none of my current problems are programming related.
All of them have to do with installing of the software and using of the IDE.
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
r***@pen_fact.com
2010-04-05 17:55:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Robert,
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Oops, my wording was misleading. I meant to say that the
emulator might not run unless your computer is connected
to a network
I assume you mean that a working connection needs to be set up before, but
does not actually needs to be active at the moment the emulator is used ?
NO!!! I mean your development computer must be connected and the
connection must be active WHILE you are running the emulator.
Post by R.Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
or you use a work around I've never tried.
I've found the perfect "work-around" : I un-installed that "Standard" SDK.
:-)
Removing the Standard SDK won't have any effect (positive or negative)
on the emulator for another SDK.
Post by R.Wieser
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Paul,
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Is your development computer connected to a network?
No, it isn't.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
I believe the emulator connection won't work unless it is,
or you use a work around.
I do not expect it to make a connection, but I *do* expect it to emulate
it
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
good enough to tell me *inside the emulated device* that it can't (and
not
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
throw an error when starting the emulator itself). :-)
Oops, my wording was misleading. I meant to say that the emulator
might not run unless your computer is connected to a network or you
use a work around I've never tried.
I think you need to readjust your expectations when dealing with tools
for Pocket PC development. Especially older tools.
Post by R.Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Have you tried working with the Pocket PC emulator that comes
with the Pocket PC SDK?
Actually, no. I did not even realize that the Pocket PC had its own
emulator (somehow assumed the "Standard SDK" was the only one that
could)...
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
I just tried, and got the "Hello World!" app to run on the emulator
(quite
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
slowly, but it works). Thanks.
You should also know that the emulator is far from a perfect mimic of
any real device. For example, the emulator has different bugs and some
UI elements look different. No, I don't remember any specifics for
either. You'll just have to be prepared for differences so you can
deal with them when the occur.
Post by R.Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
It would be worth trying to help narrow down the source
of some of your problems.
:-) As far as I can see none of my current problems are programming
related.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
All of them have to do with installing of the software and using of the
IDE.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
R.Wieser
2010-04-05 21:45:17 UTC
Permalink
Hello Robert,
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
NO!!! I mean your development computer must be
connected and the connection must be active WHILE
you are running the emulator.
I don't think I quite understand you : The computer the emulator is running
on should have a TCP/IP connection open to another computer/the Internet
just for that emulator to be able to run ? That does not quite make sense
to me.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Removing the Standard SDK won't have any effect
(positive or negative) on the emulator for another SDK.
It does not need to : the "Standard SDK" emulator was the one with the
problem, the other one worked (though slowly) allright.

[from the other message]
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
I don't know how you will devise a debugging environment
that's easier to use than eVC without doing a lot more work.
*How* is not the question, the *why* is : EVC4 cannot do it (a mismatch
between the OS it expects and what my phone is running), so I will have to
use another method.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

-- Origional message
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Robert,
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Oops, my wording was misleading. I meant to say that the
emulator might not run unless your computer is connected
to a network
I assume you mean that a working connection needs to be set up before, but
does not actually needs to be active at the moment the emulator is used ?
NO!!! I mean your development computer must be connected and the
connection must be active WHILE you are running the emulator.
Post by R.Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
or you use a work around I've never tried.
I've found the perfect "work-around" : I un-installed that "Standard" SDK.
:-)
Removing the Standard SDK won't have any effect (positive or negative)
on the emulator for another SDK.
Post by R.Wieser
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
r***@pen_fact.com
2010-04-06 14:37:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Robert,
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
NO!!! I mean your development computer must be
connected and the connection must be active WHILE
you are running the emulator.
I don't think I quite understand you : The computer the emulator is running
on should have a TCP/IP connection open to another computer/the Internet
just for that emulator to be able to run ?
YES!!
Post by R.Wieser
That does not quite make sense
to me.
I sure won't defend or try to explain.
Post by R.Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Removing the Standard SDK won't have any effect
(positive or negative) on the emulator for another SDK.
It does not need to : the "Standard SDK" emulator was the one with the
problem, the other one worked (though slowly) allright.
[from the other message]
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
I don't know how you will devise a debugging environment
that's easier to use than eVC without doing a lot more work.
*How* is not the question, the *why* is : EVC4 cannot do it (a mismatch
between the OS it expects and what my phone is running), so I will have to
use another method.
Your phrase "devise a debugging environment" suggested an attempt to
support stepping through code and examining variables as easily as
with eVC. I really, really doubt you would save time setting up that
kind of support.

My method:
1) add lots of ASSERTs to catch bugs close to actual source
2) do most debugging under "big" Windows
3) do most CE/WM-specific debugging on device supported by eVC
4) add logging code to my programs
5) use MessageBox to track my program on now rare times when I need to
debug on device not supported by eVC
Post by R.Wieser
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
-- Origional message
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Robert,
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Oops, my wording was misleading. I meant to say that the
emulator might not run unless your computer is connected
to a network
I assume you mean that a working connection needs to be set up before,
but
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
does not actually needs to be active at the moment the emulator is used ?
NO!!! I mean your development computer must be connected and the
connection must be active WHILE you are running the emulator.
Post by R.Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
or you use a work around I've never tried.
I've found the perfect "work-around" : I un-installed that "Standard"
SDK.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
:-)
Removing the Standard SDK won't have any effect (positive or negative)
on the emulator for another SDK.
Post by R.Wieser
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]
2010-04-06 14:52:04 UTC
Permalink
There doesn't have to be a connected socket to some other machine, but there
has been a problem where an active and connected network adapter was needed
for networking to function in the emulator. That is, if you had an Ethernet
port on your PC, it had to actually be connected to an active network, or, if
you had a WiFi port, it had to be connected to a network, or if all you had
was dial-up Internet connectivity, you had to connect that. If none of those
were true, network emulation would not work in the emulator. It just has to
do with how the network emulation functions. I thought that that was fixed
around the time of CE4.2, but perhaps not...

Paul T.
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Robert,
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
NO!!! I mean your development computer must be
connected and the connection must be active WHILE
you are running the emulator.
I don't think I quite understand you : The computer the emulator is running
on should have a TCP/IP connection open to another computer/the Internet
just for that emulator to be able to run ? That does not quite make sense
to me.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Removing the Standard SDK won't have any effect
(positive or negative) on the emulator for another SDK.
It does not need to : the "Standard SDK" emulator was the one with the
problem, the other one worked (though slowly) allright.
[from the other message]
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
I don't know how you will devise a debugging environment
that's easier to use than eVC without doing a lot more work.
*How* is not the question, the *why* is : EVC4 cannot do it (a mismatch
between the OS it expects and what my phone is running), so I will have to
use another method.
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
-- Origional message
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
Hello Robert,
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Oops, my wording was misleading. I meant to say that the
emulator might not run unless your computer is connected
to a network
I assume you mean that a working connection needs to be set up before,
but
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
does not actually needs to be active at the moment the emulator is used ?
NO!!! I mean your development computer must be connected and the
connection must be active WHILE you are running the emulator.
Post by R.Wieser
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
or you use a work around I've never tried.
I've found the perfect "work-around" : I un-installed that "Standard"
SDK.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Post by R.Wieser
:-)
Removing the Standard SDK won't have any effect (positive or negative)
on the emulator for another SDK.
Post by R.Wieser
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
.
r***@pen_fact.com
2010-03-04 22:57:53 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 10:31:45 +0100, "R.Wieser" <***@not.available>
wrote:

clip
Post by R.Wieser
I do have a bit of a problem with your software suggestion though : I just
googeled for it and got on an MS page offering it for about $575 , which is
well beyond my current means. I'm a hobbyist wanting to experiment with
what the phone can do, not a software professional.
A sore point for many. One of several ways Microsoft has done a lousy
job cultivating the mass of developers and apps seen for other
devices.


-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
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Search results for 'Just installed evc4 and do not know where to go now ...' (Questions and Answers)
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how to access Internet throw mobile phone to PC? pls tell me names of mobiles?
started 2007-03-13 04:14:49 UTC
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